Plastic material knives?

[Aniketos]

Ive heard of plastics that were SOO strong they actually made experimental engine blocks out of the material. It can withstand tremendous abuse. Its like a plastic impreganted with all different types of metals and such. ANYWAYS...... my point im getting at here, does anyone know of a company that makes knives out of plastics? thx~

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Lots of knives -- daggers really, stabbers -- made of Zytel/fiberglas reinforced nylon or G-10 or similarly, carbon fiber. A friend of mine made me a couple out of G-10. Cold Steel has a dart and a tanto of Zytel, I think. There are cheap, simple "ice scrapers" or "devil darts" or "CIA daggers" around. A.G.Russell sells a "CIA letter opener" -- I have two of them. Blackie Collins updated that design, adding serrations and a removable clip.

They are illegal in some jurisdictions, suspect in others. They are light and generally easily concealed, and won't show up on metal detectors. Very bad getting caught carrying one in a secure area like an airport or courthouse.

So far, none of them match more durable materials like metal or ceramic for cutting.

 

[Boink]

Esav - Excellent, succint response.

It seems a lot of inquiries about non-metallic knives are generated from New York, home to Ground Zero and new and intensified examination of visitors by regular high-rise buildings who sport a corporate clientele.

One doesn’t have to tell me about it - I lived through this devastation and resent what has been previously eroding carry rights and now gone haywire.

Where ceramic knives have true, long-lasting edge-holding and cutting capability, they can fit into the mode of “utility first, defensive blade second”. Not so with all the others that we might lump together under the name of plastic knives. There is no reason to have these save for defense. Therefore, covert carry is of the utmost importance should you choose to carry a plastic knife for defensive use.

This is not to high-jack a plastic knife discussion and herd it into a right to carry thread, but this distinction should be understood to new folks or those curious about non-metallic alternatives and who want to have something with them, despite the burgeoning challenges.

As regards the plastics, you can sharpen lots of ordinary plastic objects and withstand greater scrutiny - and perhaps, when called into question, have a justifiable right to have such device on your person. Given the edge on some of the plastic knives I have seen, such sharpening does not have to be to the extent that it appears having been done so purposely.

 

[Andrew]

Any blade that can get through metal detectors is federally outlawed here........and out of all the knife laws I hate, that is one of the only ones that makes sense to me. Only reason you would want a knife like that (since any non-metallic materials are inferior to steel) is to defeat electronic security measures.

After saying all that.....I really want one of those double edged Phantom neck knives in titanium . I'm not gonna try though.....if they caught something like that at customs here they wouldn't just confiscate it, they'd charge me. phantom neck knife]

 

[knifedaddy84]

Originally posted by Andrew
Any blade that can get through metal detectors is federally outlawed here........and out of all the knife laws I hate, that is one of the only ones that makes sense to me. Only reason you would want a knife like that (since any non-metallic materials are inferior to steel) is to defeat electronic security measures.

So this law is good because a would-be suicidal terrorist will now think..."Oh, I don't want to be breaking a knife law..." That's the least of his crimes!

 

[R. Lemmen]

A couple of technical points here:

1) The plastics I have heard used in engine blocks had metal fillers. In other words, metal particles were suspended in the plastic matrix to impart strength and heat conductivity. Also, these engine blocks had sleeves and inserts moulded into the cylinder and "wear component" areas for added strength. Not the best solution for a single-material, undetectable knife.

2) I'm not sure that the "Phantom Neck Knife" would get through a metal detector. As has been discussed in other threads here, most modern metal detectors can sense non-magnetic metals.

As a mould designer, what I think would be an interesting alternative would be an overmoulded edge knife. A knife that has a thin strip of hard material for an edge that is embedded into a plastic body during the moulding process. You might even get away with using carbide, stellite or titanium if the material volume was low enough to avoid setting detectors off. A High glass or mineral fill content in the plastic might keep it stable enough to provide a solid backing for the harder edge material (to keep it from cracking under stress).

The only problems with this project would be:
1) finding someone to fund the development process and tooling.
2) not getting shut down due to legal issues.

Anyone want to pay me to design this?

 

[Boink]

Warren Thomas fuses carbide edges to some of his titanium or carbon fiber knives.

 

[Zytif]

I scored a free plasic butterknife from McDonalds...

And now I shall sharpen it, carve up some G-10 handles, and make a sheath for it.

 

[Aniketos]

Guys look,

I dont know what your getting from me asking about a plastic knife, however im not looking to carry a conceled undectable knife. Hell I couldve canceled my microtech socom order and saved me some money.. Just asking

 

[peacefuljeffrey]

Originally posted by Andrew
Any blade that can get through metal detectors is federally outlawed here........and out of all the knife laws I hate, that is one of the only ones that makes sense to me. Only reason you would want a knife like that (since any non-metallic materials are inferior to steel) is to defeat electronic security measures.

Well, you know what? Just because one wishes to defeat electronic security measures, one is not necessarily a bad-guy.

Consider that some of the so-called "security measures" in place today in various venues are nothing short of useless and intrusive, and not only that, they don't really make anyone ANY safer.

It may be true that the only reason to want a "knife like that" is to defeat security -- but THAT may be simply because one objects to being forced to be disarmed, even though he knows he's one of the GOOD guys. The most irrational idea to come out of modern society is that the public is somehow safer when the GOOD people voluntarily disarm. It's the BAD people we need disarmed, and our efforts have always failed to do that, and they always WILL fail. That's why we NEED to be armed -- to DEFEND the good.

 

[Aniketos]

I totaly agree. Its like that saying "guns dont kill people. People kill people" I just honestly wanted to know IF there were plastic knives out there just for my own personal knowledge but peacefuljeffry brings up a very good point

 

[Boink]

Originally posted by peacefuljeffrey


It may be true that the only reason to want a "knife like that" is to defeat security -- but THAT may be simply because one objects to being forced to be disarmed, even though he knows he's one of the GOOD guys. The most irrational idea to come out of modern society is that the public is somehow safer when the GOOD people voluntarily disarm. It's the BAD people we need disarmed, and our efforts have always failed to do that, and they always WILL fail. That's why we NEED to be armed -- to DEFEND the good.

That's pretty much on-the-money from my standpoint. But it must be stated - I do not think anyone here would condone attempts to be armed with sharp plastic knives in airplanes or courthouses or such, which is clearly a felony and would only land you in major deep doo-doo, not to mention inconveniencing your fellow passengers as they empty the plane and glare at you while doing so.

That being said, I invested in some G-10 ware and Mirage X ceramics adding to my fine steel knife collection, both for it's unique collectible nature and for just such occasions as visiting NY skyscrapers that provide tenants with basic x-raying of bags and leading you through a metal detector.

I was surprised that it took a while to sell two Mirage X Operators I had on hand - some folks needed educating on the material, which I priovided liberally, but some indicated a preference for steel. No one will give up their steel; it's just nice, if you have the dough on hand, to have something totally unique. I was a little paranoid that they would fall into the wrong hands and was glad they went to a United States serviceman who is assigned to Kabul, Afghanistan.

When a G-10 La Griffe became available, I jumped on it. I'm done with getting plastic ware at this point, settling on Mirage X ceramic, a Frequent Flyer and the La Griffe. At some point, I will probably remain with the one I grab for most and sell the others.

 

[Andrew]

Originally posted by peacefuljeffrey
Well, you know what? Just because one wishes to defeat electronic security measures, one is not necessarily a bad-guy.

I wasn't suggesting that poeple carrying non-metallic blades are bad, simply to say I understand that the Government wishes to have certain knife-free venues. My apologies if it came accross that way. Although we regard our knives as tools, the fact remains that they are a concealed package that can inflict bodily harm.

I respect the fact that many (including myself) would like to be able to carry a knife anywhere. But I also believe that in certain situations, the need for carrying a knife is not as large as the need to have as safer venue as possible. Eg. court room, passenger flight.....I think that in these situations, it is better that no-one has knives, as opposed to everyone having knives. BUT....it is also important that the LE element in these situations is sufficient.

I also agree that banning certain things will not stop the 'bad-guys' from obtaining those items, but it may make it harder to get them. BUT.....I think that (particularely over here) way to much emphasis is placed on disarming law abiding citizens and not enough effort, money, or thought put into anti-trafficking forces.

I would like to see the laws here change to allow me to carry a blade legally in public (not that it stops me anyway ), and also to carry my firearm which is the best form of personal protection and a great deterrant.

 

[knifedaddy84]

Originally posted by Andrew

I would like to see the laws here change to allow me to carry a blade legally in public (not that it stops me anyway ), and also to carry my firearm which is the best form of personal protection and a great deterrant.

Why did Aussies allow these ridiculously restrictive laws to be forced upon them anyway?

 

[Andrew]

Originally posted by knifedaddy84
Why did Aussies allow these ridiculously restrictive laws to be forced upon them anyway?

It's quite simple.
In Oz I am part of a minority, In the States I would be part of an equal majority (I believe 50% of US households own a firearm). Believe it or not, 90% (based on my summary of recent surveys) of Australian people would support a complete ban on handguns. Not a nice feeling to be part of a populous that has these views, and a have a government that supports them.

In Oz there is no 2nd ammendment which means no right to constitutionally bare arms. Your firearms laws also have a bearing on your knife laws. It would be difficult for a US government to ban knives for carry when in most states you can carry a firearm in public. In Oz, there is no right to own a firearm for SD let alone carry one in public, so it was easy for them to do the same for knives.

I make my donations to the SSAA (NRA equivelant) and vote Shooters Party in both State and Federal elections. I am active in online media discussions and write letters in the hope they will be published. But when push comes to shove in a decent democratic society, the minority will not prevail......short of a revolution. Hmmmmmm......gets me thinkin!!!

 

[peacefuljeffrey]

Originally posted by Andrew
Although we regard our knives as tools, the fact remains that they are a concealed package that can inflict bodily harm.

So is a fist. Try keeping them out of courtrooms and off airplanes.

I respect the fact that many (including myself) would like to be able to carry a knife anywhere. But I also believe that in certain situations, the need for carrying a knife is not as large as the need to have as safer venue as possible.

Safe is NOT a function of whether there are weapons present in a given venue. If that were true, police stations would be the most unsafe places in the world!
Safe IS a function of what a given person or group of people wishes to DO.
A room full of people with guns -- even civilians (at a GUN SHOW) -- is a VERY SAFE PLACE. Hardly any crime will occur there at all, and very few accidents, actually. A prison yard, where all weapons are prohibited, EVEN TO THE GUARDS, is a VERY dangerous place.

Do you see my point? I hope so.

Laws and rules that keep good people from being armed do not make anyone any safer. (Well, check that: they make CRIMINALS safer.)

---Jeffrey

 

[Blue Jays]

Good Evening All-

Aniketos, thanks for starting a good thread. Very interesting.

Boink, PeacefulJeffrey, and Aniketos have brought up excellent points about the need for non-imaging knives for "good people" amongst us.

My business takes me to Manhattan on a fairly-regular basis. I avoid flights and drive or take trains whenever possible to minimize airline hassle with knives and firearms.

For 25+ years, I've carried a sub-3" folder. I've never been in a fight or deployed my folder in anger or fear. As a reaction to terrorist attacks on September 11, my once-legal knives have RANDOMLY become forbidden in Manhattan...depending on which buildings your business requires you to enter.

I frequently find myself picturing each customer site in my mind to remember status such as:

• Which buildings have walk-through metal detectors
• Which buildings "wand" visitors
• Which ones only x-ray your bags
• Which ones inspect both you and your bags
• Which have reliable and competent security

My knives always are and always have been 100% legal in any jurisdiction of my travels. I resent the fact that I have now been branded as "undesirable" based upon the tools I carry.

Now, wouldn't a non-imaging knife be the perfect solution in a situation like this? It would simply and magically "transform" me (and others) back to the days before the WTC and Pentagon attacks. There are several benefits associated with a plastic or G-10 knife:

• I would have a tool and potentially life-saving device for slicing duct tape and plastic sheets
• Building management could continue to believe they have made their building safer for tenants/approved visitors.

[/rant]

Regards,

~ Blue Jays ~

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Originally posted by Andrew
But I also believe that in certain situations, the need for carrying a knife is not as large as the need to have as safer venue as possible. Eg. court room, passenger flight.....I think that in these situations, it is better that no-one has knives, as opposed to everyone having knives. BUT....it is also important that the LE element in these situations is sufficient.

Andrew, I can see that you're one of the good guys, but what you're posting here is self-contradictory.

The need for carrying a knife is so I won't need to use it -- and the more people known to be carrying, the less the bad guys will think about challenging us. As more and more states in the US have passed "shall issue" laws, violent crime shrinks away from those states.

Why would you want unarmed aircraft passengers? When I flew back from the Blade show last year, I had to check my knives in my baggage, but I was allowed on board with a walking stick. Much more effective weapon, even in those cramped quarters.

The LE element will never be sufficient. Security comes from the Latin word for 'self-care'. Law enforcement are the professionals who take charge of a crime scene after the fact. We are never going to have enough of them to post on every corner -- I hope.

 

[Andrew]

Originally posted by peacefuljeffrey
Safe is NOT a function of whether there are weapons present in a given venue. Safe IS a function of what a given person or group of people wishes to DO.---Jeffrey

Agreed. Safe is not a function of whether or not there are knives/firearms present in a given venue. No I would not consider the SHOT show or a Police station unsafe, but take this situation for example....A divorced couple is in family court fighting for the custody of their child, an extremely emotional situation. One party loses it.....better that party only have his fists than a 9" Bowie or a firearm. Somewhere like a courtroom, where emotions are running high is an inherantly volatile atmosphere.

Esav Benyamin. Yes I also think that the efforts of LE are sometimes misguided or in vain.....hence your knife/walking stick delimma. Which gets me thinking.....you may have changed my mind. I understand the need for armed aircraft passengers. A passenger flight is not an inherantly volatile situation, so there is no need for firearm/knife free air travel. It is literally impossible that the LE element could ever be sufficient enough to stop crimes from happening, hence the need to protect yourself.

Although we support the same cause and generally share the same views, perhaps our slight diferrences in opinion can be traced to the diferrent histories and cultures of our respective contries. Eg. The NRA is fairly steadfast on most of it's positions and policies, and it can be because of the power it has. The SSAA also defends it's positions but being much less powerful, realises it sometimes has to give a little in order not to lose everything.

 

[pinpoint]

Andrew
A titanium knife wouldn't be illegal in NSW. Titanium is detectable in a metal detector.
However you wouldn't be able to legally import the phantom neck knife as it is double edged.
Regards
Pinpoint

PS: You must be a John Laws fan