Plausible deniability

[Blade Runner 7]

So there's an ASH2 on fleabay being sold by one of our regulars here. I find the wording in the description to be highly misleading but he thinks I'm "stupid" for thinking that. What do you guys think?

Here's the situation. He has an etched and stripped blade. He is describing it as "Busse ASH2 competition finish with convex edge done by AZTimT". I asked if it's actually a comp finish or if it's stripped. He said it clearly stated it was given a comp finish by Tim. I personally don't think you can "give it a comp finish" since a comp finish means it never had coating. Plus I don't see how it "clearly states" it was given a comp finish. His wording makes it sound like it is a comp finish knife that was given a convex edge by Tim.

We all know that Busse doesn't offer the comp finish and those knives are more sought after right? Is he trying to mislead people in your opinion?


On a related topic I've been seeing a lot of people listing BIG finish blades as just satin and even a few BG version not mentioning they are BG or SR101. Is this a new trend among the Busse crowd? I really hope not.

 

[Blade Runner 7]

Well after a few heated messages he decided to change one word in the description. Now it says
"Busse ASH2 competition finish and convex edge done by AZTimT"
Notice the "with" became "and"?

 

[Jaxx]

Personally, I'd appreciate seeing regrind/refinish logos on the pile side from those who do the mods. Then there's no question except, "What all did xxxxxx do to the knife?" Keeps things simple.

 

[Jaxx]

Recently, the wording has been muddy over many things. Most folks outside this forum don't know all the details, acronyms, generations, etc. like we do. It's why I preach consistency with the names & details, as it helps us all. That's something the Old School HOGs were patient enough to teach us as the questions arose.

 

[Blade Runner 7]

Yeah I can get a newbie making a mistake like that but this is a seasoned hog.

He even lists it as used yet says it's unused in the description. He loves wallowing in grey areas. Personally I don't consider a knife that has been etched, stripped, and given a different edge than the factory one, unused.

 

[bullpin]

I haven't seen the add so I may regret this. But Competition, BIG , and bbdc as far as I'm concerned should only be used if it came from factory. Other wise throw a "homemade " comp finish in the add or "other"satin finish. I've never seen anyone's home "BeadBlast " have the same look as busse gives it. Something special about their blasting technique. Love it. Now to go look on $bay.
Edit: I read ad and understood it was not done by Busse. Nice knife.

 

[Nautique]

Newb here, so it's been stripped and wording is being used to describe it as a factory finish?

 

[RedbeAR15]

Buyer Beware!

Does the "regular here" know you have started this thread? If so, maybe he will be along shortly to comment and clarify everything

 

[David Brown]

Hmm, Its been listed here on Blade Forums for about 2 weeks and no one has bothered to asked these questions of the guy in the thread ?

http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/busse-and-swamp-rats.1494965/

People can link to threads that are on Blade Forums correct ?

We have the Good the bad and the ugly forum if you think someone is doing wrong correct ?

 

[DamascusBowie]

For the record the listing is clear to me, I can see someone inexperienced being confused, but I don't get the impression that he's implying that its a factory competition finish.

 

[Busto]

Well after a few heated messages he decided to change one word in the description. Now it says
"Busse ASH2 competition finish and convex edge done by AZTimT"
Notice the "with" became "and"?

Was this post meant to be a Public Service Announcement about a Knife listed in another sales venue? I believe that if you are the one purchasing the item I can agree with getting a proper description which seems to be that the knife was altered in a favorable manner by a member of this forum. I have a lot of USED Busse knives directly from the Compound that were accompanied by a
S.S.S.S. (Swine Sharp Shaving Sheet) they have cut paper thus USED. I don't believe the seller had bad intentions to mislead anyone on the condition of the blade in fact it looks better than a lot of actual Competition Finish blades from the Factory. So if anyone in the future posts an ad for a blade will you be scrutinizing them and starting heated messaging to get it corrected to your liking?

 

[clampdaddy]

I don't believe he's intentionally trying to mislead anyone. Just not worded quite right.

 

[evlDan]

Personally I think that Blade Runner's post was more directed to ensuring that people in general are using proper descriptions of blades for sale. It is very true that Busse has created so many variants of just about every blade style that there is much confusion about exactly what each and ever blade actually is. Even members of this forum sometimes have trouble identifying blade specifics. I believe that Blade was just using this specific sale as an example, not necessarily intended to shame a specific member.
Just as Mr. Brown has stated if Blade Runner does indeed have a personal grudge about a seller or buyer there is a correct manner to address it. I do commend Blade Runner for trying to resolve his perceived infraction personally by PM.

As for the sale post, as others have stated I believe there was no malice intended and I understood exactly what the author meant. Could it have been worded a bit more deliberately, Yes. But, it looks like he just copy and pasted what he used here on this forum where this kind of thing is easily understood.

 

[Blade Runner 7]

I haven't seen the add so I may regret this. But Competition, BIG , and bbdc as far as I'm concerned should only be used if it came from factory. Other wise throw a "homemade " comp finish in the add or "other"satin finish.

Exactly.

Edit: I read ad and understood it was not done by Busse. Nice knife.

Yeah but he changed the wording after telling me it was clear for people to understand.

Newb here, so it's been stripped and wording is being used to describe it as a factory finish?

Yes it's been stripped. The finish is done very well but it's not from the factory that way. In my opinion, he was wording in a way to mislead people. Some people may think it's an accident and some people might be totally fine with it.

Buyer Beware!

Does the "regular here" know you have started this thread? If so, maybe he will be along shortly to comment and clarify everything

I'll let him know.

Hmm, Its been listed here on Blade Forums for about 2 weeks and no one has bothered to asked these questions of the guy in the thread ?

http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/busse-and-swamp-rats.1494965/

People can link to threads that are on Blade Forums correct ?

We have the Good the bad and the ugly forum if you think someone is doing wrong correct ?

Personally I haven't been paying very close attention to the sales forum lately. I had asked him on the bay because I've never seen a comp finish ASH 2. I'd probably buy it if it was comp finish. It was worded slightly different there than it is here.

Was this post meant to be a Public Service Announcement about a Knife listed in another sales venue?

Well it has come to light that it's listed here too so...

I believe that if you are the one purchasing the item I can agree with getting a proper description which seems to be that the knife was altered in a favorable manner by a member of this forum.

Shouldn't the seller be in charge of giving a proper description in the first place? Avoiding the word "stripped" is pretty misleading isn't it? Wouldn't that make it a proper description? "Favorable manner"? Isn't that a big part of the issue here? If I'm looking for a comp finish knife, a well done stripper isn't favorable.

I don't believe he's intentionally trying to mislead anyone. Just not worded quite right.

Maybe. He shouldn't have been so defensive when I asked though.

 

[Blade Runner 7]

Personally I think that Blade Runner's post was more directed to ensuring that people in general are using proper descriptions of blades for sale. It is very true that Busse has created so many variants of just about every blade style that there is much confusion about exactly what each and ever blade actually is. Even members of this forum sometimes have trouble identifying blade specifics. I believe that Blade was just using this specific sale as an example, not necessarily intended to shame a specific member.
Just as Mr. Brown has stated if Blade Runner does indeed have a personal grudge about a seller or buyer there is a correct manner to address it. I do commend Blade Runner for trying to resolve his perceived infraction personally by PM.

As for the sale post, as others have stated I believe there was no malice intended and I understood exactly what the author meant. Could it have been worded a bit more deliberately, Yes. But, it looks like he just copy and pasted what he used here on this forum where this kind of thing is easily understood.

It's more of a conversation starter about the topic rather than specifically this one ad so yes you are right. As time goes on, more Buses blades come out, and an already confusing library of terms becomes almost impossible for new guys to figure out. There will always be those that take advantage of that. As mentioned earlier, I've seen more B.I.G. stain blades being labeled as simply "satin" than with the B.I.G. acronym. Maybe accidentally but you never see the accident work against the seller now do you?

No I wasn't trying to shame the guy otherwise I would have mentioned his handle and posted the full conversation.

If he copy/pasted it, it's even worse because then he went out of his way to change one word to make it more ambiguous.

 

[Busto]

He is describing it as "Busse ASH2 competition finish with convex edge done by AZTimT".

This statement tells me that "AZTimT" did the comp finish and convex edge. I don't recall Jerry mentioning any New Models with Comp Finish since they were discontinued a few years back. I will agree that the seller didn't say ONE of ONE Factory Competition Finish ASH2 or Stripped Combat Grade ASH2. I believe it's the sellers prerogative to word HIS ad as he sees fit.
Seems to me that both of you are active buyers/sellers/flippers and were you just calling him out with the heated messages?

 

[nydude]

Interesting. It's worth a discussion. While I won't comment on the ad. Please correct me if I'm wrong but we're only talking about one word here "stripped", implying what ever was done to the blade, was post factory, then brought to one of various levels of shininess? Sure that should probably be mentioned. As for finish definitions I really don't know how someone who hasn't come here for years would parse out satin, dc/bb, BIG, or comp on there own.

 

[Blade Runner 7]

Can you really do a comp finish?

There have been a bunch of comp finishes since it was discontinued. You just can't order them. They make appearances at shows.

It seems to me that Busse ASH2 comp finish is the first part. That's all inclusive. Then the word "with" is describing something apart from the first statement. I don't see how it's clear.

 

[AZTimT]

I guess I need to clear some things up for everyone's benefit. I call my SF finish Stripetition Finish, not Competition Finish, in an attempt to offer something folks want but can no longer get straight from the source through no fault of their own. It is my favorite user finish and apparently for many others as well. It is relatively easy to forget the difference between 3-4 letters of terminology difference after a bit. I only take on a few here and there mostly as a hobby as I have time in between all of my other responsibilities (family/work/ranch/etc) so I have not invested into a method to put my mark on them yet aside from the slightly distinct look of the finish they wind up with that usually includes the logo etched. I do try to post the ones I have done up on my FB artist page that is in my contact info here for public reference (edit: however my satellite internet is capped at 250MB/day so sometimes I am unable to upload if it has been used up already, then I have to remember to do so later. ). If anyone has any questions about a knife they can very easily contact me so I can confirm if it is my work or not. Even though I do not solicit projects here on BF, I still have paid for an Orange level membership 4 out the past 5 years.

In this case if it is the same black G10 ASH-2 with etched logo and convex edge from the exchange:
YES, that is one of my AZTimT ArtworX SF projects,
NO, it is not Busse factory CF,
YES, if you have more questions please contact me privately rather than make a public issue out of it that questions another Hog's integrity.
YES, I'm an easy guy to talk with and I will help to the best of my ability.
NO, I very highly doubt there is any intentional misleading going on as neither one of those terms is common anywhere outside of Busse knife culture and mine is even less common.

I hope this clears things up or helps in some way. Happy hunting!

 

[Blade Runner 7]

I don't think there was a question directed towards you. Didn't matter to me who did it if it wasn't factory. Comp is comp. Not comp is not comp.