Please change the headings on the knife maker forums

NickWheeler

NickWheeler

Joined
Dec 3, 1999
Messages
9,437
Personally, I think breaking up the Shop Talk forum wasn't a great idea--- but since it looks like that's what the powers that be decided to do.....

Could you guys please at least change the name/title/headings on them?!?!?!? PLEASE!!!

I don't know what Shop Talk is supposed to be now...???



But the two parts of this that are truly baffling: :confused: :confused: :confused:

The newest section is "Hammers and Tongs" which is obviously a forum for hot work- forging, welding, heat-treating, etc. Right? Um, NO... I don't know what it's supposed to be for. And yes, I did read the little descriptions under the headings.

Around the grinder sounds like a stock removal forum... but it's for off topic chit chat. Can't it just be called "Knife makers off topic area" ?!?!?

Could the names of these forums please be changed to something that isn't totally misleading and confusing... even to a guy that's been a member here since 1999!


Thank you. :)
 
I agree

I mentioned that before those are completely misleading


Once you figure out what they are supposed to be, change them or moving threads will be a full time job for someone.


I also still support removing the membership restriction for "around the grinder"
 
Thanks Sam. :)

I totally agree about "ATG" being a restricted area. I have never understood why it was made that way in the first place. A sub-forum being restricted (IMHO) means it's special and its content would encourage a registered member to buy a premium membership so they could participate/take advantage of what it has to offer. ATG is not like that IN ANY WAY. It should be open to all registered users.
 
I agree with you Nick,sometimes I just want to blow off steam and post something like{ever have one of those days where every thing turns to #$%&.}The only thing I ground today that i can keep and show off is my thumb.OUCH.
Eddie
 
I'm an amateur knifemaker. I make a few knives a year for myself, family, and friends. I have only been to one hammer in, and while there were multiple topics discussed, formally (planned seminar) or informally (spur of the moment topic), everyone was welcome and joined in.

I've always imagined Shop Talk to be kind of like an online hammer in. Is my connotation of Shop Talk wrong? A year ago I had a great in-person chat with Fred about convex vs flat grinds that drifted into both of us reminiscing about rabbit hunting and beagles. While I can understand wanting to stay close to the topic of knives, it seems to me that the additional sub forums will stifle discussion, not improve it. Especially when you aren't clear what the forum is supposed to be about!
 
In my opinion, adding sub-forums, especially those with unclear titles, will do nothing to improve the site.

Others have said to just let Shop Talk be about what the title indicates.... Talking Shop as it relates to making knives. I agree with that 100%.

All the repetitive questions by "Newbies" will always be around, regardless if you have 50 sub-forums and the title print size is 3 inches tall.

Most of these repetitive threads roll off the first page by the end of day anyway, so no harm is done, and we all have the choice of responding to them or not.

As far as moderation goes. It seems to me that Shop Talk has been over-moderated in the last few months. I would like to think that this perceived over-moderation is based on the moderator's interpretation of the forum rules and nothing else.

Personally, I don't post here much any more. Not only do I have little to offer, but even if I thought I did have a tid-bit that may be helpful, it seems like certain individuals will always come along with a better idea.

I say we don't need more sub-forums, and that less (nit-picking) moderation may just prove to be more advantageous to us all.

Robert
 
^^^^^^^

Well said Robert. I honestly don't know what "Hammer and Tongs" is all about. :confused:

It says "Knifemaking Knowledge and Discovery, share your works in progress, ask questions, and continue the traditions"

I'm not sure how that differs from "shop talk" because basically that description seems to describe what shop talk has been the entire time. If we're supposed to ask questions in H&T what the heck are we supposed to do in shop talk? State facts?

I think all this moderation and segregation attempts are going to break down the "morale" of this forum as some members have already mentioned they are unhappy and I fear we will lose some great input from some great folks. IMO I think there really only needs to be shop talk and an off topic section and no need to have a premium membership to access it. As others have mentioned the "newbie" questions can be ignored by the seasoned makers, more often than not it's the newer less experienced makers (like myself) that try to offer some guidance to them. I can understand a master smith not wanting to sit there and explain for the thousandth time why using "mystery steel" is a bad idea, or how do I get started making a knife but that's where the newer makers come in and pick up the slack. It's a way to give back after all when the topics of advanced metallurgy come up or things along those lines, it's where the lesser experienced folks can let the masters have their discussions and we just try and soak it all up. It's like chess, a new player or even a decent ranked player isn't going to go up against a grand master and expect to beat them. But a lot can be learned by watching two of them play and learning from it without having to be involved in it.

I don't know what the powers that be had in mind when they had the hammer and tongs section come up for discussion but it seems pretty clear that no one really wants it or understands it. I can understand the moderators and Spark looking to make their job a bit easier and things a bit more enjoyable for the members. It seems like all it needs to make that happen is to have "shop talk" which would basically be anything knife making related that people would talk about in a shop or at a hammer in related to knife making. And an open "Off Topic" area that would be used, surprisingly, for anything off topic from knife making. It doesn't seem too complex.
 
Fletch Helical said:
It seems like all it needs to make that happen is to have "Shop Talk" which would basically be anything knife making related that people would talk about in a shop or at a hammer in related to knife making. And an open "Off Topic" area that would be used, surprisingly, for anything off topic from knife making. It doesn't seem too complex.
Click to expand...

WOW.......... What an amazing concept. Wish we could try that and see if it works. Something tells me it just might work out for everyone. Sometimes we just can't see the forest for all them danged trees in the way.

Make both open to everyone, then the moderators can weed out the SPAM or direct posters to the appropriate area(s).

If you want to add another sub-forum that may help generate paid memberships, you could have one titled "Betcha Didn't Know This" :) Probably wouldn't have many posts, but might help generate paid subscriptions for those few who "Just Gotta Know". (Hope you realize I am joking here)

Robert
 
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Robert Dark said:
In my opinion, adding sub-forums, especially those with unclear titles, will do nothing to improve the site.

Others have said to just let Shop Talk be about what the title indicates.... Talking Shop as it relates to making knives. I agree with that 100%.

All the repetitive questions by "Newbies" will always be around, regardless if you have 50 sub-forums and the title print size is 3 inches tall.

Most of these repetitive threads roll off the first page by the end of day anyway, so no harm is done, and we all have the choice of responding to them or not.

As far as moderation goes. It seems to me that Shop Talk has been over-moderated in the last few months. I would like to think that this perceived over-moderation is based on the moderator's interpretation of the forum rules and nothing else.

Personally, I don't post here much any more. Not only do I have little to offer, but even if I thought I did have a tid-bit that may be helpful, it seems like certain individuals will always come along with a better idea.

I say we don't need more sub-forums, and that less (nit-picking) moderation may just prove to be more advantageous to us all.

Robert
Click to expand...

Well said Robert and I agree with what you're saying.

I think we better be careful or we will end up losing more of the more talented people here that are willing to go WAY out of their way to post WIPS and answer a lot of the questions posted here on the forum.

PLEASE listen to what these guys are saying and do the right thing.

Jim
 
Here are my thoughts on the whole thing. A lot of my opinion come from being some level of foreman on metal trades jobs.

Most of those here are a little differnt and don't fit well in standard boxes. Just like many of those in the trades and especially in short term construction and shutdown projects. As I once told a superintendent "If they always did exactly what they were told and were supposed to they would have never ended up here!" Knifemakers are a little different. I am the only normal one. LMAO

One the thread that started this discussion, I will say this. Learning to deal with yourself and your mental approach to the art/craft of making knives is a HUGE part of making good knives. Your brain is the best, most important tool in the shop in all ways. How to deal with it is every bit as important as dealing with a grinder, saw, HT oven or whatever.

Having run crews that come from varied walks of life from ex teachers and bankers to ex cons makes you learn to deal with different personalities, understandings, and perceptions. The one ex banker was harder to deal with than any ex con. LOL. Anyway, I have always gave the most leeway to those who contributed the most to my assigned purpose and always will. If in their willingness to do the job or impart knowledge to the rest of the crew they step a bit over one of the many lines, I far more apt to let it slide or minimize the effect. If it is necessary to confront the person on a issue I try to do it one on one in private. If the issue could or does go to a level above me, I will always go to bat for those who have made good contributions. If I get "you let so and so do this and now your on this guy for that"' I will state my reasons cutting one guy more slack than another. Simple as that.

Most of the lines are not all that clear or solid concrete barriers. They are guide lines. Many times one line is crossed in the spirit of keeping things with in a more important line. Generally using a gentle left hand that is known to be backed by a solid right hand works far better than always using the hard right hand. Being known for backing up the productive and having little patents with those who are not has worked wonders for me when I am running the show.

I like it here and for the most part the moderation has done a great job. Sometimes they look at things different than I would. Hell, some days I look at thing different than on other days. Sometimes when my authority or orders are questioned, I fail do do my best and give a short abrupt reply, that gives some one a bad taste in their mouth. I hope that the true men among my crew understand I am who I am and make allowances for my short comings as I do theirs. It usually come out in the wash and if necessary I will make amends.
 
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*****testing, testing 1, 2, 3... testing*****

Is this thing on??? :confused:

It doesn't seem to be. :grumpy:
 
Agree with what's been said:
-new subforum names are confusing. "Hammer and Tongs" seems like forging, which in contrast makes "Around the Grinder" seem like it caters to stock removal makers.
-Hammer and Tongs is unnecessary.
-Around the Grinder would make more sense if renamed "Off-Topic" or "Around the Coffee Pot". Either way, it should not be a premium (paid) subforum.
-Shop Talk should be a be for subjects related to knifemaking and issues that knife makers deal with.
 
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