Please excuse another thread regarding digital camera recommendations

Bronco

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Alright guys, so here's the deal. I've already have a nice Nikon SLR setup for my more serious photographic undertakings. It does just about everything I could realistically need a camera to do, even if it does come with a fairly substantial weight and bulkiness penalty. For major vacations and most family gatherings, the camera's size isn't a huge issue as I've devised a fairly efficient load out for the camera bag, and am more than willing to plan accordingly to accomodate the extra baggage.

At the same time, however, the SLR setup represents a bit more of an investment than I'd like to routinely have sitting out in my truck. And so it is that I increasingly find myself camera-less in impromptu situations where a few nice pictures would be much appreciated. Of course, the photog purist in me completely abhors the idea of spending hard earned money on any camera with a lens the size of a pencil eraser. But what I really hate about every compact digital camera I've ever had the misfortune to use is the seemingly interminable delay between the moment when you press the shutter release and the point at which the photo is actually taken.

So without further ado, I'm open to suggestions for a good quality pocket digital camera. For a starting point, let's say 6 megapixels or more and a true pocket sized design with a thickness of not much more than 5/8ths of an inch (about the thickness of a 9 volt battery). Decent glass and a low signal to noise ration would be nice. The use of CompactFlash cards would be a plus also as they're used in my SLR, but this is by no means a necessity. The only thing I absolutely demand is that the friggin' camera has to take the damn picture at some point within the same lunar cycle that I press the shutter release. This point is non-negotiable, and if the technology doesn't yet exist, please just tell me so. I'd much prefer to wait another a year or two, rather than waste my money on something that I'll end up throwing into a wall. :)
 
It's not really as small as you're looking for, but you might take a peek at the Canon A570is. I just picked one up and I like it quite a bit. I prefer it over the Sony and Nikon offerings in the "snapshot" cameras. Overall picture quality is pretty dang nice IMO. Feels good in the hand, too. The only place it's slow is writing to the card (SD and SDHC compatible). The picture happens right when you press the shutter, though.

YMMV :D
 
Looking forward to the replies in this thread, as I have the exact same needs in an EDC digital -- my son is 3, and the interminable wait I've got in my Canon PowerShot A70 is simply unbelievable. And I hate missing out on great moments with him.

For any camera gurus out there, if there are a couple of options at various price points, could you list that as well? I'd probably go with a cheaper camera that's got a lot less fancy features ... as long as it's fast. Or do I have to spend much more money on things I don't really care about to get that kind of speed?

Thanks in advance,

Ted
 
It's not really as small as you're looking for, but you might take a peek at the Canon A570is. I just picked one up and I like it quite a bit. I prefer it over the Sony and Nikon offerings in the "snapshot" cameras. Overall picture quality is pretty dang nice IMO. Feels good in the hand, too. The only place it's slow is writing to the card (SD and SDHC compatible). The picture happens right when you press the shutter, though.

YMMV :D

Thanks for the suggestion, TS. Yeah, that's a bit thicker than I was hoping for, but the relative lack of shutter lag sounds good.

Perhaps it would be more realistic to specify a camera thickness of under an inch (as opposed to the original request for under 5/8ths).
 
Thanks for the suggestion, TS. Yeah, that's a bit thicker than I was hoping for, but the relative lack of shutter lag sounds good.
Perhaps it would be more realistic to specify a camera thickness of under an inch (as opposed to the original request for under 5/8ths).

The recommendation of the Canon A570IS is a very good one.

The problem with most slim digicams is the lack of any manual and semi-manual controls - such as aperture or shutter priority
(but in mitigation - most do have plenty of scene modes) -
if you are willing to forego the manual modes then these may be worth looking at -

Sony DCS-W80
(7.2MP, 3072x2304, 3x Opt, 31MB Internal Memory, Memory Stick Duo/Memory Stick PRO Duo Card Slot - MPN: DSCW80B)
has shake reduction/image stabilization
low priced at $181.95 shipped
SonyW80B.jpg


dpReview of Sony W80

Sony W80 at Imaging-Resource

Sony W80 at dcResource


Canon PowerShot SD800is
(7.1MP, 3072x2304, 3.8x Opt, 16MB SD Card, SD/SDHC/MMC Slot - MPN: 1270B001)
Image Stabilization, as well as very desirable 28-105mm equiv zoom lens
Low priced at $239.00 shipped

CanonSD800IS.jpg


dpReview of Canon SD800is

Canon SD800is at Imaging-Resource

Canon SD800is at dcResource

For completeness/comparison -
Canon A570is low priced at $155.00 shipped

dpReview of Canon A570is

Canon A570is at Imaging-Resource

Canon A570is at dcResource

--
Vincent
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+1 on the Canon SD800IS. Shutter lag is very low (gets the grandkids OK!). It will be very hard for you to find a compact that uses CF cards anymore, however, but a decent 1GB SD card can be had for around $20.00. HTH.
 
The only thing I absolutely demand is that the friggin' camera has to take the damn picture at some point within the same lunar cycle that I press the shutter release. This point is non-negotiable, and if the technology doesn't yet exist, please just tell me so. I'd much prefer to wait another a year or two, rather than waste my money on something that I'll end up throwing into a wall. :)

hmmm.... I've thought more about this -
Most current digicams from major names are pretty fast -
BUT the delay between jabbing the shutter and picture taken is still NOT zero....

Remember digicams have to measure and set exposure, focus before the shot is taken - this applies to dSLRs too.

Take the Nikon dSLR (you don't tell us which you have) so I've picked the very highly regarded Nikon D80 semi-pro -
from Imaging-Resource review of the Nikon D80
(dpReview singularly does NOT measure the focus time)
" Shutter response (Lag Time):
Full Autofocus 0.25 second
Time from fully pressing shutter button to image capture, zoom lens at wide angle position. Good speed, very comparable to D200.
Prefocused 0.083 second
Time to capture, after half-pressing and holding shutter button. Quite fast, but slower than the D200's 0.057 second.
Continuous AF 0.095 second
This mode usually shows no speed increase with our static subject; we have no way to measure performance with moving subjects. Continuous AF does help on the D80 though, but it doesn't get quite a quick as when you've prefocused in normal AF mode.
Manual focus 0.083 second
For most cameras, shutter lag is less in manual focus than autofocus, but usually not as fast as when the camera is "prefocused" "​

This is pretty good with a total lag time of 0.25sec.
But the prefocussed time is only 0.083 sec - less than 1/10th sec.

BUT this is is not the complete story -
since this is at a single lighting level -

"Popular Photography" is a bit more comprehensive in their review -
NikonD80Focus.jpg

Notice the focus time gets as slow as 1.5secs in poor/low light -
BUT what is more significant is the fastest time is still about 0.5secs!

So the secret to fast reaction is to Pre-Focus -
that is half depress the shutter button to lock focus -
then when one fully depresses the shutter for the shot,
it takes less than 1/10th sec -
almost (but still not quite) instantaneous.


Just for completeness/comparison some of the compact digicams mentioned -

Canon SD800-IS -
" Full Autofocus Wide 0.39 second
Full Autofocus Tele 0.44 second
Prefocused 0.077 second "​

Canon A570-IS -
" Full Autofocus Wide 0.54 second
Full Autofocus Tele 0.68 second
Prefocused 0.075 second
Manual focus 0.286 second "​

Sony W80 -
" Full Autofocus Wide 0.46 second
Full Autofocus Tele 0.75 second
Prefocused 0.008 second
Continuous AF 0.47 second
Manual focus 0.22 second "​

Note the full autofocus time when at the telephoto end of the zoom -
0.5-0.7 secs that's SLOW.... but so is a dSLR in lower light......
The Pre-Focus times are fast at less than 1/10th sec, with the Sony at an astonishing 8/1,000th sec (8 millisec)​

--
Vincent
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They're probably a bit thicker than you'd like, but I can heartily reccomend the Leica D-Lux series of P&S's. They're not cheap, but they're well worth the extra money. Although, for a bit less, the Panasonics "were" using the Leica lens and were supplying the electronics for Leica, so therefore are basically the same.
 
So without further ado, I'm open to suggestions for a good quality pocket digital camera. For a starting point, let's say 6 megapixels or more and a true pocket sized design with a thickness of not much more than 5/8ths of an inch (about the thickness of a 9 volt battery). Decent glass and a low signal to noise ration would be nice. The use of CompactFlash cards would be a plus also as they're used in my SLR, but this is by no means a necessity. The only thing I absolutely demand is that the friggin' camera has to take the damn picture at some point within the same lunar cycle that I press the shutter release. This point is non-negotiable, and if the technology doesn't yet exist, please just tell me so. I'd much prefer to wait another a year or two, rather than waste my money on something that I'll end up throwing into a wall. :)


I've only used a digital SLR once, and the speed of shot was just amazing (for someone used to compacts).

I think you may be disappointed with the current crop of compacts. Whilst things have improved a lot, there is still a long way to go.

However, the trade off of always having a compact available to backup your SLR is hopefully you will never miss that once in a lifetime shot. UnknownVT posted a recommendation of Sony W80 and Canon SD800. They are good choices and probably the best of the current generation. Good luck in your search.

PS. If you do settle for the canon or sony, get fast memory cards as can reduce your shot to shot time. In case of Sony, memory stick duo pro and for Canon, high speed SD such as Sandisk Extreme III.
 
I just picked up a Nikon L11 at Target. Normally $129, on sale for $119. I was looking for a snapshot unit with an easy user interface. So far, so good. It does what I need. Not fancy, not a lot of bells and whistles.

Regarding the delay between pressing the shutter and the picture being taken and missing some great shots of grandchildren, I think the ticket is the "continuous" mode where the camera takes shots as long as the button is pressed, maybe one or two per second. With a 1 gig memory card you can afford to load up and then select. This unit allows 600+ frames with a 1 gig card at 'normal' resolution. For me this is the answer for missed shots.

Probably other cameras have this feature but for a point-and-shoot camera, I did not spend a lot of time on research. If I really want to be serious, I will dig out my Minolta SLR film camera with four lenses.
 
I have missed quite a few shots with my digital before I understood how slow the camera was. I actually use the old film disposable cameras for "candids" close up because of my frustration.
 
Well, guys, first off I want to thank everyone, and especially Vincent who went well above and beyond the call of duty, for your excellent contributions to this thread. Your suggestions led me to a wealth of on-line information that I was able to pour over for several days. In the end, I suppose you could say I made some compromises, but I doubt that this will come as much of a revelation to anyone familiar with the topic insofar as the compact digital camera it turns out is pretty much the embodiment of compromise. After considering the full spectrum of cameras, ranging all the way from the sleek and slim little Casio and Sony offerings, up to and including much more substantial and feature laden offering such as Canon's G9, I finally ended up settling for the Panasonic Lumix DMC-TZ3.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonictz3/

It's a little thicker than I originally requested, and price wise falls into about the middle of the pack with a current Best Buy price of $269. Full press shutter lag in the high speed auto focus mode is pretty good at 0.38 seconds at both telephoto and wide angle settings. Low light and high ISO performance is crap, but that is apparently fairly universal in this market segment. The big draws for me were the excellent lens performance, the wide 10x focus range, and the fact that the lens goes to 28mm on the wide angle end. Build quality feels very good with an all metal body. I'm looking forward to getting out and seeing how the reviews translate in the real world. If I run into any real surprises, I'll be sure to report back. In the meantime, thanks again to everyone who helped out.
 

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