PLEASE HElP!! cable damascus (pics)

Bailey Knives

Bailey Knives

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
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This may be a long thread. I am trying my first attempt at cable damascus. I got extra improved from ellis custom knifeworks. Here is the process involved. I got it red hot, put it in a vise and twisted to tighten up the wires. After, I heated red hot, wire brushed and fluxed, then heated until the flux melted and brought it to the anvil and gave several solid hits, stalling the hammer after each one for a second. Then I repeated the above procedure countless times excluding the whole vise thing. After a while the wire brush was sticking to the surface so I didnt wire brush every time after that, but I still gave a light coating of flux (also bought from ellis ckw.) The billet felt solid, but after I let it cool and cut it with a wheel, I noticed voids inside, and the wires seemed coated with a layer of slag and only a couple seemed to weld to eachother.

Here is where my mind is going... should I have loosened up the twist on the vise and got some flux inside the cable? should I hit harder or more solid? Was the wire not hot enough? the surface of the cable seemed molten, but I am not sure about the inside. I used indian George's plans for a forge and am using forced air, but the billet isnt welded inside.

So my questions are this, what do I need to do to make the inside wires weld, and is this piece salvageable? How do I get the slag of of the inside wires? can I burn them off and if so, how long should I leave it in the forge. What color of steel am I looking for?

Sorry so many questions. the deal is that I am having a baby in october and I wanted to make a damascus knife for her before she is born, and give it to her when she is 18. Thought It may be a cool thing to do (my wife isnt so sure)

Here are some pics of the billet if they will help with any of the questions.
 
You only got started.You probably needed more heat (welding heat is higher that red)and needed to work the billet solider.The billet may have been hot enough on the outside,but not soaked through to the core.Even heating is critical.
 
I was just studying the billet and the coating that has formed over it looks kinda like ceramic, I think it is the flux, so I am glad to hear what you said, it confirms what I just realized upon closer inspection. I have realized that doing that stuff is a 2 person job, I could hardly hold on to the hammer when I was done. I have a friend coming over tomorrow and I am going to commandeer some extra hands. Thanks for the response, I was getting frustrated.
 
Are you using a coal forge or gas? The reason I ask is that welding is different with different fuels. If you are using gas, once it's at a welding heat, count backwards from 30 and then make the weld, if you're using coal, get it to a welding heat, and then bump the heat up for just a second, count 5 and go at it, charcoal's similar to coal, but be sure you've got a good sized pile for welding, this is one time you don't need to be worried about conserving fuel.

Oh, and I don't dwell with the hammer, loose too much time that way, light taps for the first run, with heavier blows following.

Tony
 
After the first soaking get it to a vice and twist the cable tighter. do this at welding temp. make sure its hot enough at all times :cool:
 
I forge with hydraulics but the principle is the same. I work square rather than flat until the material is firm. I try not to let the billet grow in length. I try to knock it down just through square and then turn and run back just through square, drawing sideways. Doing this process of massaging through square you can hold more heat longer than working flat, and you have less surface area to mass, so let decarb opportunity. When I achieve a homogenous smooth scale, I work it to the dimensions I want. I have long flatting dies for my press that will capture the total lenght of the billet. This process is much faster when you can capture the whole face. I usually will throw some thermal cycling in to the mix especially if I have twisted the billet alot...Ed
 
Thanks for the info guys!! Is there such a thing as too much flux? After the thing is cooled, there seems to be a glassy coating over the entire outside and even the individual strands. I believe it is the flux. Should I keep applying it after each hammer session, or should what I have on there be enough as it is?

Ed, Is it too late to try to turn this into a square billet? I was thinking about that today.
 
My advise......

Why waste a billet on a few cents of flux...... Just Flux it.... If you are using coal I would bring it up to welding heat and you can see the flux bubble and see sparking of the cable at the very end if you are sticking it down into the bottom of the pot first.

If you are using a gas forge then still watch for the bubble or honey glaze look of the flux.

My first weld (besides onto a piece of rebar and spot welding the cut end of the cable prior to forging) is at the first twist. I stick the end of the billet into the vise first and twist where it is welded at the handle......

Hope I do not skip steps.....of how I do it....

1. Red Hot
2. flux
3. welding heat (bubble) bring out then brush (sometimes I sling the cable to force the oil from inside the cable out if it has not burned out already, watch where you sling it.....
4. flux
5. welding heat... scrape....flux 5. then welding heat..... bring out stick in vise and twist a 4 or 5 inch section at a time.... or less, depends on heat and how fast you work.... feel for resistance and stop or you may not have a good weld in the middle..... when in doubt, stop twisting-scrape-flux-reheat.

After you have a complete twist the sucker should be stiff..... Then always work at welding heat....beat into a solid round and smooth before into a bar.

Never work cable at red, even if it is already into a billet.... always keep at welding heat. or darn near.....

I do not clean the billet in a witch's brew of borax water, I do not take apart, I do not soak in any degreaser..... I just burn it out and make sure the oil runs out away from any section I am welding or you can contaminate as you work the billet...... When in doubt stick back in and flux and scrape, and so on...... The stock may be too big for hand hammering.......

no way is the right way, just what you find works for you........ a pic of my cable....
4.jpg


Here is my website where Kim Breed and I are showing a clip of our cable damascus how to video..... you will see me twist by hand......
http://www.dpcustomknives.com/CableDamascusMovie.html

Daniel Prentice
 
From your description it seems that you never got the cable up to welding temp. I like to start the weld when it looks like the color of butter, and keep hammering into the bright orange range. YMMV

BTW,nice idea for your daughter that's on the way.

stevo
 
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