pocket laser for signaling

3

3nails

Joined
Mar 7, 2002
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While at a highschool football game someone had a laser and was shining it around and it drew alot of attention. Everyone in the place noticed. It got me thinking: Would a small laser be worth having in my bag for signaling? What are your thought? I did a search and could not find much info on them.



Thanks Dean
 
3nails, I have been tempted to try one out for the same reason. I dont know what sort of range you would need to be effective but I guess it would have to be further than ear shot of a whistle...?, and what about bright sunlight ? how does that affect the beam, not that's much of a issue in the UK.... I think if they are effective over say 1 mile + then for the size and weight pack one..
Nick.:)
 
Any light is better than none esp at night, however I would guess because it has a narrow focused beam instead of "fllood" style it may not be very effective. When someone shines one in your face do you know where it came from? Usually no, that's what makes them fun (to some) and annoying (to others ) at movie theaters, etc. A light stick or something like that can be seen for some distance, you don't need to point it in any particular direction.
During the day, best is still a signal mirror.......
 
The narrow beam makes it virtually useless as a signalling device because at any distance that a whistle couldn't reach, you would have no way of knowing if you are hitting somebody's eyes (which is the only way they would ever see it) I was on a tourist tower in Gatlinburg, TN one night and was shining the dot on people as they walked by. Nobody even new they were being "hit". The only time people would look for the source was if I shined the dot in front of them on the ground, at which point they were still unable to find the source. If by chance you did get lucky and hit somebody in the eye with the beam, the chance of you being able to repeatedly hit their eye until they locked it on you would be slim. Of course, if you were close enough to actually see the person, and see the laser dot (which does come increasingly difficult at long distance), then maybe it would work. For sunny days, it is always best to carry a small mirror, which can be easily seen for over 100 miles if visibility is good. Also, with a bit of practice it is relatively easy to aim one so the flash repeatedly hits your target to give them time to lock in on your position. All you need is to practice aiming with your fingers on the side of a building during the day so you can get a feel of where the dot shows up in relation to the v you make with your fingers. Of course, if you have a quality mirror with a good sighting hole, then aiming becomes even easier since the glass in the hole flashes when the beam hits your target. If you want though, get a small laser and try to practice by shining people that are at a distance, and see if they can see you. YMMV

Mike
 
Laser pointers are great for drawing attention to a small point when the watcher is near that point. However, when you are lost, the idea is to draw as much attention to yourself as possible from a long distance. Lasers don't work well for this because they operate on narrow beams. What you need is a wide angle strobe - they attract more attention and from a wide area.

Kevin
 
Those lasers should be outlawed before someone gets killed by accident.

True story ... Several years ago i was going on vacation, camping in Maine. It was a 9 hr, drive from central NY, AFTER having worked a very hard shift.

I got my camper unhooked from the truck and decided I needed a hot shower and coffee to unwind from an absolutely horrible day. On my way to the shower, don't I catch a glimpse on laser pulse dead center on my chest. I reacted the way I was trained. I dove for cover, rolled up into a kneeling weaver position and was reaching for my weapon when I finally realized it was some DUMB punk kid playing around with a laser pointer. I chased him back to his parents and we had a tet-a-tet that resulted in his losing his laser pointer. Sounds funny, now. At the time, I was ready to use deadly physical force to meet a perceived deadly threat.

I cannot think of one, single good use for those dam* things outside of a classroom. They're too directional for signalling purposes. You're better off with a Photon or similar light for signaling with.

Mike
 
Lasers can be used as wireless communications either visually using morse or other simple code, or by modulating the beam with voice or other data. This would work only by pre-sighting in the laser(s on each end if 2 way desired) and receiver(s). With proper shrouding and a bit of luck, the beam would never be noticed, and would work over a fair distance.

One do-it-yourself way of doing this is found here:
http://www.scitoys.com/scitoys/scitoys/light/light.html#laser_communicator
Obviously, the configuration can be made much more robust.

Other than this, I can not think of much that the laser is better at than other methods already described. Except as decoys... Hanging lasers here and there, making it look like a skermish line... Whatever.
 
For the pocket laser to work for signaling you need to see the party that you are trying to signal. With strobe lights you can be unconcious and still be found. With a pocket laser you need to do a very careful job of aiming. That doesn't make the pocket laser useless, it just makes using it more complicated.

I see the primary use at night with a clear line of sight to someone whose attention you want to attract. Due to low dispersion you can probably catch someone's attention for miles, if you can hit them. This challenge is a lot like using a signaling mirror. It is impossible to keep your light spot on your target's eyes from a distance so you sweep your beam over the target repeatedly. With a mirror you rock it up and down while panning across the target. With the laser you oscillate it as precisely towards the target as you can. From long range it will appear as a bright flashing pin-point of red light.
 
I have both a common red laser, and one of the new green lasers. The green lasers are fantastically more powerful than the red ones. The green point is visible much further--more than three miles. Also, unlike the red lasers, the green ones cast a visible beam.

I recently tested a green laser against a signal mirror. The signal mirror was far brighter and more visible. A green laser should definitely not be your primary visual signaling device. However, as a back-up signaling device, it has several interesting features. Firstly, since the beam is visible, you can follow it back to the person with the laser, and pinpoint exactly where the person is. Being able to do this with a three+ mile range (at night) could be quite a good signaling aid. Secondly, the diffisuion of light reflecting off the spot where the laser is pointed is quite bright. (For example, I can light up my brother's windowless bathroom with it.) Thus, it can be used in a pinch as a weak flashlight, but with the odd advantage that you can also light up an area far away from you, instead of just right next to you.

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SgtMike88 said:

"I cannot think of one, single good use for those dam* things outside of a classroom."

Here are four: 1) They are a dream come true for nature photographers, allowing us to cast a spot on a medium distant object in the dark, to focus properly for long exposures when light is insufficient for normal focussing; 2) They make fantastic cat toys--my cat never got tired of chasing the red dot; 3) they are great for sketching out a possible climbing route right on the rock face, and discussing it with a climbing partner; 4) they make it possible to point out a particular star, planet, constellation, satellite, etc. to discuss or teach astronomical stuff.

By the way, Mike, I disagree that they should be outlawed. If there must be yet another in the endless assortment of laws for every possible situation, it would be much less of an unnecessary infringement on people's liberty to outlaw reckless misuse of laser pointers than to comprehensively outlaw an item with plenty of legitimate uses. I should be able to carry and do any damn thing I please as long as I am not harming anyone.

Also, Mike, I think you need to come to grips with the fact that, outside of a combat situation, you are far more likely to encounter a child innocently fooling around with a laser pointer than a sniper. You would do better to retrain your reflexes for your civilian situations than to demand that the world must adapt to your views and ways.
 
I used a couple a few weeks ago in the woods to see how they worked. At a distance, they are very difficult to see on leaves or grass unless they are very close to you, but when I shined them onto flatter surfaces they were easy to see. Like others have said, they will have to be aimed at the person you want to signal. For the most part any type of flashlight would work better.

However they do have some specialized uses. If you know where the person you want to signal is and he khows how you will signal him, you can use it for a semi-covert signal. That would probably be useless for a real situation but ok for games. Domestic animals seem to like to follow the laser so maybe it can be used to get an animal close enough to catch. If that works it would probably be illegal under normal conditions, though.
 
They need to make a laser that spells out HELP if you are going to use it for that. I don't see it being picked up widely.

Kevin
 
Originally posted by Evolute


By the way, Mike, I disagree that they should be outlawed. If there must be yet another in the endless assortment of laws for every possible situation, it would be much less of an unnecessary infringement on people's liberty to outlaw reckless misuse of laser pointers then to comprehensively outlaw an item with plenty of legitimate uses. I should be able to carry and do any damn thing I please as long as I am not harming anyone.

Also, Mike, I think you need to come to grips with the fact that, outside of a combat situation, you are far more likely to encounter a child innocently fooling around with a laser pointer than a sniper. You would do better to retrain your reflexes for your civilian situations than to demand that the world must adapt to your views and ways.
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Very well put. Oh, and those are beautiful pics you have.

Mike
 
It is true that we do not need more laws, but we do need to use common sense. Giving lasers to kids to use as toys is not a good idea. Anyone putting a laser on me is likely to see the business end of a 1911 until such time as I have determined the source of the laser. Going around in public lasering people will likely result in someone calling the police, and the arriving officers will probably take the threat VERY seriously. Don't step on Superman's cape, don't spit into the wind, and don't point lasers at people!
 
This is a good article on laser devices to signal for help (as opposed to sending signals). Nothing I've read anywhere convinces me that laser pointers are either practical or effective, though.

At http://www.equipped.org/rescuelaser.htm they look at a Laser device specifically designed to get attention.
 
Originally posted by Rex G
Anyone putting a laser on me is likely to see the business end of a 1911 until such time as I have determined the source of the laser. Going around in public lasering people will likely result in someone calling the police, and the arriving officers will probably take the threat VERY seriously.
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Come on Rex, if you go whipping out your pistol at every kid that points a laser at you, you are right, the police will be called and they will take it very seriously. However, it will be you that goes to jail, not some naive kid with a harmless laser pointer. It is people like you who always talk about pulling out your gun that feeds the anti-gun agenda. That is not the kind of publicity we need if we want to keep our second ammendment rights. You and Sgtmike88 need to use some common sense. I'm sure that most of what you said is nothing more than talking tough, but it still looks bad for those of us that carry legally concealed handguns, and are fighting the leftists who want to take that right away from us. Picture the headline UNARMED 10 YEAR OLD GETS GUNNED DOWN BY A LEGALLY ARMED MAN OVER A LASER POINTER Boy the Democrats and Anti-guners would have a field day with that. How many times have you walked down the street and had a laser aimed pistol or rifle pointed at you? How many times has some kid pointed a harmless laser pointer at you? It's called good judgement....Look into it.

Mike
 
Mike (Medic1210),

Thanks for the kind words about my pics. they are greatly appreciated.
 
While I disagree with banning lasers, IIRC police do take them seriously. In public, pointing at people with them is just as idiotic as pointing toy guns at people.
 
th emain concern i have is that they can actually damage your eyes, especially the cheaper ones that come from tiwan or china or wherever that arent made to the same standards. theyre meant to be harmless but over here in the uk the (sad) trend towards them a few years back resulted in a couple of headlines of some kids actually damaging peoples eyesight with cheap imported products that were too pwoerful as they hadnt been made to the same standards. also it breeds contempt in so far as people think its 'oh its only a laser i flash one of those around all the time' when there are alot of lasers that would immediately blind you, I work in netowrking, some of the lasers used for long distance fiber optic data transmission would blind you outright

although ive never tried their effectiveness for getting peoples attention i would say they would be a very poor alternative to a flashlight, I certainly wouldnt consider one as an attention grabbing device, a strobe light a mars flare or just a plain old flashlight would be far far better IMHO
 
Originally posted by bladefixation
th emain concern i have is that they can actually damage your eyes, . . .
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That's my sentiment. My eyes are still 20/20, but they used to be better, and I am getting floaters. It would make me pretty angry if I lost more eyesight just because somebody thought they were fooling around with a toy. We only have two eyes and should do what we can to protect them. Others need to respect the damage that can be done by well-meaning but stupid horseplay.

Scott
 
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