pocketclip woes

J

JohnnyMayhem

Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
1,360
I have a Kershaw Ken Onion Blackout and I was walking in the shop, caught the clip on a doorway, and ripped the clip off the knife, not just ripped the threads out of the handle, but ripped the set of nuts that are pressed into the plastic handle.

Should I call Kershaw, or should I try to press the nuts in after throwing a little bit of epoxy in there first.
 
from what i've heard kershaw really backs their knives. before i started a redneck engineering project i'd give them a call to see if they can help them. just my .02, good luck. ahgar
 
good point. then again I'm looking at it I wonder how much work it would take for me to make it into a tip up.
 
Shouldn't take much at all. Just a 1/16th drill bit, a 2-56 bottom tap to thread the handle scale (not the metal) and a thin kerf cut off disc to cut off the screws to length. You will need a mandrel and dremmel for that also or you can use a grinder/sander and grind them down also. The easiest way to cut them is to use a small piece of brass or even platic or micarta that you drilled out and threaded. Then screw the button head screws into that and cut them using the brass or plastic to hold them for you.

Normally you should use a number 50 drill and not a 1/16 for 2-56 so if you have to order the screws, the threader and wrench, madrels and the brass you may as well add the few more cents in there for the right drill. I know from experience you can get away with the 1/16 in softer materials like fiberglass reinforced nylon though. FRN keeps threads quite well compared to micarta or even G10 so if you just thread it by itself and screw the screws in just snug you will be good to go.

The key to making threads last in those softer materials is to never overtighten the screws. They need only be snug to work. Thats what strips them out fast is to overtighten them. Also avoid the temptation to use loctite or super glue in the holes you thread. What that will do if you do that is insure you have to leave the clip permanently. The first time you unscrew the screws to remove the clip to straighten or retension it all the threads will come out with the screws if you glue them on softer materials. Once gone you are back to where you are now.

Normally I mark where I want one hole. Drill that one and thread it then mount the clip to the handle and tighten that custom fit screw. Using that screw to aid you in holding the clip in the position you want then you can drill out the other remaining holes. You can usually thread those with the clip on there but being your first time I'd go ahead and take it off. When threading those holes take it slow. Don't bind or put too much lateral force on that tap. They will break very easily. Pay attention to how it feels and when you feel it resist the slightest bit against the steel liner back it out and you are done. The liner is most likely hardened stainless steel. Trying to thread that steel will result in a broken tap for sure when doing it by hand. Don't even go there. I wouldn't.

Other little tips. Get extra screws. I'd get the 1/2" ones but 1/4" will work if thats all you can find. I'd cut the screws you use now shorter than you need for the amount of threads you put in the holes. Then in the event that one day one does strip on you its simply a matter of using a longer screw because there will be threads deeper in.

Good luck.

STR
 
doesn't sound that hard. I got most of the stuff here at my shop. It's weird though, after looking at the clip, and the pressed in nut things, I almost want to find more of the nut things and install them on both sides for left hand/right hand, tip up and tip down carry.

Thanks STR. I'm now thinking about giving it a lanyard hole in there too.
 
STR said:
FRN keeps threads quite well compared to micarta or even G10 so if you just thread it by itself and screw the screws in just snug you will be good to go.
Click to expand...

What exactly do you mean by "keeps threads quite well", I would have assumed micarta and especially G10 were more responsive to threading since they are stronger/harder. The detailed posts are a significant asset to the forums by the way.

-Cliff
 
Yeah. Me too. Over the years I've just seen from the experiences of doing them that the FRN ones hold up better long term. There are some old Cold Steel early knives out there I've done for folks from before I even owned a computer that I've seen again repeatedly for sharpening and tip fixes and such that have held up as well as I could have hoped for.

Micarta I've threaded for the clips by itself has come back to me on several occasions because they stripped out. G10 ironically is the one I'd call the weakest to thread all by its lonesome though. I almost get scared with Micarta or G10 thinking I know these are not going to hold up to myself when I do a G10 knife for a customer. It seems to be good and strong if you just thread it and stick the screw in there and leave it. But it seems less forgiving to me if you take it in and out too many times. G10 gets kind of powdery and its very fine for lack of a better description. It is a strong material but alls I can speak from is my experiences. All three when threaded by themselves without involving a metal liner are a risk but I trust the G10 threads by their lonesome less than the other two based on my own observations. I can't say I've done any formal testing to prove this though. Its just what I've seen. Others may see it differently.

BTW, thanks for the comments Cliff.


STR
 
That is interesting, it may be that if you look at the material from the point of view of the thickness of the threads it is very different than on the thickness of the scales. This actually sounds very much like the issue of edge stability in steels where if you go past a certain cross section the coarse steels can fracture readily even when sharpening. Maybe the threads produce a cross section thinner than the laminate will allow as its "grain size" isn't fine enough. Maybe you could do a composite handle which had an outer layer of g10/micarta for strength and wear durability and then an inner layer of FRN for clip stability.

-Cliff
 
I stripped the G10 on my AFCK reassembling it and not being careful enough with one of the screws. I did notice from the catelogues that Benchmade had stopped screwing directly into the G10 and instead uses a inlaid nut on the otherside, which I think is a good idea if you are going to be toying with it.
 
I would use a finer thread than a 2-56. With a finer thread, I think you get more surface area contact. I have mounted clips to two knives with 0.125" micarta handles. Three 1-72 screws hold it on. I have bent the clips several times with out the screws comming out or the micarta damaged. I just remove the clip, bend it back, reattach it and I'm ready to go.

Since the screws that i put in stop at the liner, i used a bottom threading tap. It cuts treads closer to the bottom of a blind hole.

There is a nice section in the Machinery's Handbook which gives guidance on what size pilot hole to use depending on the diameter and depth of the screw.

Ric Lee
 
I use the smaller screws on occasion also when the clip and /or knife in question allows it but with most production folders you have to look at the size of the holes in the pocket clip itself and use what fits best. The 2-56 size fits in these holes snugly where as the smaller ones you speak of have lots of space all around them, ie the holes are too big for those small screws. That equates to movement of the clip even if the screws are tightened down all the way and I'd rather have it so it stays in position so that is why I stock mostly the 2-56 sizes in button head torx and hex head screws.

Idealy it is always best to put in a backing plate of threaded titanium or at least brass on the underside (inside) of the clip. This way you have it nice and secure regardless of the screw you use to mount it. Its fairly easy to make your own little retainers using a 1/8" pivot barrel like those sold by knife and gun finishing supplies, texas knifemaker supply or knifekits. Cut thin slices off the end of the barrel after securing one in a small vice grip and you have ready made threaded reatainers. Simply take the knife apart and drill 1/8 holes in far enough on the handle scale to conceal them using a little super glue to hold them in place. Of course you do this after marking and threading your mounting holes. I sometimes make a flat spot on one side of the 1/8 barrel. This way when you seat them in place to act as retainers for your clip you can fill in that area or void in the hole from where you made your flat area. Fill it will super glue or epoxy and it will prevent the retainer from spinning on you when you tighten and loosen the screws.

STR
 
I'm a gunsmith and have done a LOT of drilling and tapping for scope mounts and so on. My tip: ALWAYS drill using a drill press and with your workpiece in a CLAMPED vise. Then to tap, also use the drill press. I place the tap in the chuck, lower the tap down to the lip of the drilled hole, then turn the chuck by hand as I very gently "follow" with the drill press handle. I back out a bit every half turn or so and almost all the way out every couple of turns to clean the tap and hole. Using the press ensures you're lined up with your hole and avoid lateral force. You haven't lived until you've had a tap break in the receiver of a customer's super high priced rifle. Then you can sit with magnifiers on and a diamond burr in your Dreml as you grind out the ##@$%!! broken tap and start over. Anyway, slow and easy with the right lubricant wins the race when tapping regardless of the material. I believe there are some tapping attachments on the market which let you mount a tap in a drillpress and then be able to "freewheel" it but I'm too old and stubborn to buy one. BTW, when tapping other than metals, the best tap lube is to lightly twist the tap against a candle. Using oil, water, or any liquid will make most non-metallic materials and especially wood swell to some extent. Then, after the screw is in the swelling can cause the area around the tapped hole to crack or craze. Second BTW: If you need to remove the work piece from the vise, you relocate by remounting your original drill. Then lower it into the previously drilled hole and you're centered up again for tapping. Clamp your vise and away you go. Been there, done that. Regards to all.
 
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