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POLL: What's your favorite sharpening angle?
- Thread starter Murkr
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For opening boxes, anything at or below 30° inclusive (15°/side) works well. A very thin blade with an edge in the 25°-30° inclusive range is even better. All of my knives are sharpened somewhere into that range and, in normal EDC uses, I have no complaints about any of them.
If the edge wears or rolls a little more than you'd like at that thinner angle, a very, very minimal microbevel at 40° inclusive (20°/side) can stabilize it pretty well.
If the edge wears or rolls a little more than you'd like at that thinner angle, a very, very minimal microbevel at 40° inclusive (20°/side) can stabilize it pretty well.
Glenn Goodlett
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Usually shoot for about 20 degrees per side for a tough working edge on a pocket folding knife.
Here is one that I went down to about 18.5 degrees per side.
Here is one that I went down to about 18.5 degrees per side.
All of my pocket knives in a quality steel typically get a 15dps edge. Hard use fixed blades get 17-18dps, and my Japanese kitchen knives are in the 10-12dps range.
When I sharpen low quality knives for friends I'll usually run 20dp for pocket knives, and 17-18dps on the kitchen knives.
When I sharpen low quality knives for friends I'll usually run 20dp for pocket knives, and 17-18dps on the kitchen knives.
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WAY shallower.... Is less than Bacon wavy an actual geometric measurement. haha
I hand grind everything.
I like making user knives, and I'm pretty hard on them, but I don't want thick edges and steep angles.
<15 on some
I hand grind everything.
I like making user knives, and I'm pretty hard on them, but I don't want thick edges and steep angles.
<15 on some
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I use a convex adapter. When I was checking normally like 3-4 degress offset n my go to is around 16-20dps. It's similar to a 16/17 n 20 micro bevel. Different knives get different edges and finishes. When you rake them out tougher steels are more likely to roll and harder steels chip easier. If there are random staples in your boxes I'd keep it around 20.
Most of the time I don't even set up the angle cube. If I'm doing one for the first time I match the grind on the knife, maybe go a little more or less. I don't know how you could measure it but a bunch of knives I've owned seem to get a lot better after the 3rd or 4th sharpening. You can hear n feel them change on the sharpener. They seem to last longer at the same angle too. Most factories use a belt sharpener that can burn or temper the edge. So if you go from factory to 17dps. You've removed more material behind the edge but the edge itself still has more chance of being crappy from the factory. Unless you keep going ham after you've set the apex to remove any tempered material. It might roll or chip easier. I tend to wait to make change for this reason. First I want to see what the best performance is with the grind it came with. Some I also go right for the 14-18. They just want it.
Most of the time I don't even set up the angle cube. If I'm doing one for the first time I match the grind on the knife, maybe go a little more or less. I don't know how you could measure it but a bunch of knives I've owned seem to get a lot better after the 3rd or 4th sharpening. You can hear n feel them change on the sharpener. They seem to last longer at the same angle too. Most factories use a belt sharpener that can burn or temper the edge. So if you go from factory to 17dps. You've removed more material behind the edge but the edge itself still has more chance of being crappy from the factory. Unless you keep going ham after you've set the apex to remove any tempered material. It might roll or chip easier. I tend to wait to make change for this reason. First I want to see what the best performance is with the grind it came with. Some I also go right for the 14-18. They just want it.
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15 dps is what I use for most of my knives. The factory edge is set at 13-15 and that’s been a good angle for most all my tasks. If the knife steel and heat treatment can’t stand up at that angle then I don’t need it. Sometimes if I’m working on really dirty, tough stuff I set a micro bevel on the 15 to 17 at the apex . That’s as fat as I go. It works very well.
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Some y'all need to understand that what you think your holding say 15dps you're actually convexing the apex more towards 20dps
Unless you have a laser goniometer you have no idea what angle you actually have at the edge.
Unless you have a laser goniometer you have no idea what angle you actually have at the edge.
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DeadboxHero
I was thinking that too lol. For the guys saying they doing 15 degrees please show us some photos of your pocket knives. That bevel must be huge. I was thinking of doing 18, 19, or 20 on my benchmade bugout in s90v. and maybe 20 on my protech malibu.
Im trying to figure out which number to start with. Like, start at 17, and if it dulls too quickly go to 20, or vice-versa.
In order to know what your bevel is going to look like at a given angle, you have to know what the thickness of the blade is behind the edge. Personally I would rather have a wider bevel and a knife that cuts well, versus a tiny bevel that might look better ... but doesn't cut well.
This is a Demko AD20.5, which isn't known for its thin geometry. Still looks okay to me.
This is a Demko AD20.5, which isn't known for its thin geometry. Still looks okay to me.
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Heck if we’re getting that fancy using lasers to get the exact angle I’ll pass. I have sharpened knives since I was 10 years old going on 53 years now and I learned what works for me and what doesn’t. An angle is an angle it doesn’t change. I’m only concerned how it performs not how it looks or the nit picking exact angle! Lets not overthink this!
Overthinking this is what I'm all about.
People who have been freehanding for decades almost certainly have "their angle" that they will default to over an over again. OTOH, if you're sharpening a lot of blades for a lot of people who have different types of blades and uses, it's very helpful to be able to determine the exact angle. Saves time mucking around trying to match the existing angle or determine that a new angle would be more appropriate.
In my particular case, 9 times out of 10 I'm sharpening on a Tormek and honing on a Ken Onion with leather belts. I get a much better result knowing that the knife is sharpened at precisely angle X so I can hone at precisely angle Y (which may or may not = X, depending on the steel).
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I use a Sharpmaker for most of the touching up of my freehand edges. And I do most of that with the 15°/side setting, except when occasionally microbeveling at 20°/side. That makes it stupid simple to know if the angle I created (freehand) is at or below 15° per side. Used in the conventional fashion with the blade spine held vertically, the apex will make direct contact with the SM rods if it's within the 15°/side limit on the SM. And most of my edges will still make contact if I tilt the spine toward the rod a little bit as well. So for those, I can also verify they're something below 15°/side.
When I first transitioned into freehand, for awhile I was comparing my freehand edges to the setting I'd previously used with a clamped & guided system (Lansky), on which nearly all of my edges were sharpened at the lowest setting ('17' as marked on the Lansky clamp). And with that system, anything much over 1/2" of blade width extending beyond the edge of the clamp actually sharpened out to around 14°/side or less on the '17' setting - I measured to verify that. I noticed after some time, my most comfortable and natural freehand hold on my blades was leaving ALL of my edges in the <15°/side range, which suited my preference perfectly. So, this is originally how I learned that my freehand edges were falling within that 15°/side limit, as verified at the apex.
I also have a block I drilled to accept the round ceramic rods from some of my V-crock sharpeners. I'd made a jig, using a miter gauge on a table saw which was set for 12.5° inclination, the angle verified with a digital protractor. I then used the angled jig on a drill press to drill the block. This gave me a base for the rods that was drilled for 25° inclusive. Using that base for my ceramic rods, I can then verify when my edges fall at/below that limit, by verifying direct contact at the apex with the blade spine held vertially between the rods.
It's something of a misconception that the convexing resulting from freehand will ALWAYS widen the apex angle. It's possible, and I've trained my hands to do it, to limit most of the up/down movement in the sharpening angle to the steel BEHIND the apex. It's about learning to feel when the apex just 'bites' the stone, to know if the angle is right or not. And adjusting the hold on the blade so the natural tendency is to drop the spine a little bit in the motion, instead of over-rotating the edge into the stone, it then becomes easier to more tightly limit how high the angle goes, and instead allow for most of the variation to occur in a range below the target angle - therefore convexing the shoulders of the grind behind the apex, instead of the apex itself. And over time, after an edge is first set freehand, I also notice my freehand contact tends to widen my original bevels - this means my natural bias is tending to hold the angle lower than the apex angle, when I resharpen my edges. This is another way I know with certainty that my technique is NOT widening the apex angle, but tending to do the opposite over time. It's also something that's easy to do deliberately, simply by holding the spine a little lower each time you sharpen, to regulate your held angle.
It's not important to know EXACTLY what the angle is, so long as you can verify it's maintained within the angle limits you set for yourself. And there are ways to do that which don't necessitate an exact measurement every time you sharpen.
When I first transitioned into freehand, for awhile I was comparing my freehand edges to the setting I'd previously used with a clamped & guided system (Lansky), on which nearly all of my edges were sharpened at the lowest setting ('17' as marked on the Lansky clamp). And with that system, anything much over 1/2" of blade width extending beyond the edge of the clamp actually sharpened out to around 14°/side or less on the '17' setting - I measured to verify that. I noticed after some time, my most comfortable and natural freehand hold on my blades was leaving ALL of my edges in the <15°/side range, which suited my preference perfectly. So, this is originally how I learned that my freehand edges were falling within that 15°/side limit, as verified at the apex.
I also have a block I drilled to accept the round ceramic rods from some of my V-crock sharpeners. I'd made a jig, using a miter gauge on a table saw which was set for 12.5° inclination, the angle verified with a digital protractor. I then used the angled jig on a drill press to drill the block. This gave me a base for the rods that was drilled for 25° inclusive. Using that base for my ceramic rods, I can then verify when my edges fall at/below that limit, by verifying direct contact at the apex with the blade spine held vertially between the rods.
It's something of a misconception that the convexing resulting from freehand will ALWAYS widen the apex angle. It's possible, and I've trained my hands to do it, to limit most of the up/down movement in the sharpening angle to the steel BEHIND the apex. It's about learning to feel when the apex just 'bites' the stone, to know if the angle is right or not. And adjusting the hold on the blade so the natural tendency is to drop the spine a little bit in the motion, instead of over-rotating the edge into the stone, it then becomes easier to more tightly limit how high the angle goes, and instead allow for most of the variation to occur in a range below the target angle - therefore convexing the shoulders of the grind behind the apex, instead of the apex itself. And over time, after an edge is first set freehand, I also notice my freehand contact tends to widen my original bevels - this means my natural bias is tending to hold the angle lower than the apex angle, when I resharpen my edges. This is another way I know with certainty that my technique is NOT widening the apex angle, but tending to do the opposite over time. It's also something that's easy to do deliberately, simply by holding the spine a little lower each time you sharpen, to regulate your held angle.
It's not important to know EXACTLY what the angle is, so long as you can verify it's maintained within the angle limits you set for yourself. And there are ways to do that which don't necessitate an exact measurement every time you sharpen.
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Between 12-15° per side for general purposes.
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I can understand if you’re sharpening for a customer and want to satisfy them.Overthinking this is what I'm all about.
People who have been freehanding for decades almost certainly have "their angle" that they will default to over an over again. OTOH, if you're sharpening a lot of blades for a lot of people who have different types of blades and uses, it's very helpful to be able to determine the exact angle. Saves time mucking around trying to match the existing angle or determine that a new angle would be more appropriate.
In my particular case, 9 times out of 10 I'm sharpening on a Tormek and honing on a Ken Onion with leather belts. I get a much better result knowing that the knife is sharpened at precisely angle X so I can hone at precisely angle Y (which may or may not = X, depending on the steel).
For me I’m sharpening to just cut stuff in a sufficient manner. I don’t mind sharpening but I don’t get that involved with accuracy. I think it is a personal preference with a personal knife.
I am one of the just show me the results kind of person. I don’t get too hung up on a specific angle. It is not something I can do consistently on a bench stone so why worry? The end result is what counts. If you can get your knife sharp enough for your purpose then you win!
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Well the problem is when a person complains about cutting ability and durability and doesn't understand that the angle they think they are using is not what it is.
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I wasn’t complaining at all. I have no problems cutting what I need to cut for a long time and I do know what my angle is. 15° per side is my target set. Sometimes 17°. It may not be exactly 15° but it’s within a degree. I do have a simple tool for checking angles but I don’t need it every time I sharpen. I mostly use it on a new knife to know what angle it was sharpened at.
Some people have problems with basic math and have to use a digital calculator. I don’t.
It’s a learning process, muscle memory and building skills.