Pommel, My Thumb & A Hammer (not graphic) :)

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fenryr

Joined
Mar 26, 2004
Messages
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In an earlier thread I posted my desire to fabricate a missing pommel cap for a horn handled M43. With everything that has been going on the last couple of days, I've failed to post my pathetic attempt but I figure now is a good of a time for a laugh as any.....even at my expense..... :D

This certainly won't be too graphic (just picking on ya' Dan) but it is painful!! Started with the aluminium blank cut a little bigger than actual size. Found out that the little 2-3lb weights your wife uses for aerobics works pretty good as a form and with the plastic coating on the weight....it protects the blank ;) I haven't told her about her involvment yet, so we'll keep that to ourselves. Hit my finger several times during this process.

Made an initial mistake by drilling a hole in place for one of the tang rivets while the blank was still flat.....which mean't by the time I started curving the blank to fit the handle's arch, the hole was off by 2-4mm. Probably hit finger again around this point as well.

By the time I got a decent line up on the rivets, I had to address the issue of the handles arch from side to side as well as back to front. More hammering, more hitting of fingers & thumb. Hopefully, someone is getting a laugh out of this.......anyhow, finally got the blank to the shape & arch I wanted. Now I just need to deal with fabricating it out of a clean blank....stilling thinking of the cold rolled steel and figuring out how to do away with the hammer marks....thinking about a belt grinder with some fine grit?

Must go....fingrer hruts :grumpy:

Oh, Dan you were right.....I really appreciate what those guys do at HI.....and they don't even have a Lowe's down the street from them!! :D
 
Hey, Fen, have you given any thought to casting the cap? Maybe you know someone who has a backyard foundry? Or maybe one of the forumites does this?

Just a thought? Should be able to get a nigh-perfect fit by casting.
 
Any tips for getting an old bent up brass buttcap to fit flush again? Not a flat one either, a bulged Chitlangi buttcap.
 
Aardvark, I thought about that....saw a show the other day on the lost wax process.....didn't realize all the steps involved in the making the mold for that type of casting. But I think you are right about getting a perfect fit....that would do the trick. I'll see if anyone knows anything around here. I knew a couple of guys in Mpls who made their own Iron Age smelter.....I just went for the beer & hot dogs.

Skeletor,
I've got a thin brass one that bends up at one end. I'd have to take it off to reshape it and since it's an older piece I don't want to run the risk screwing it up. I found the little brass hammer used to remove the retaining peg from katana's works well for small jobs ( I can't remember the right names right now) If you don't want to take the cap off,maybe a thin piece of rubber over it would help protect it from the hammer strikes?
 
making fittings is my least favorite part of knifemaking. I'm hoping it's just because I don't have the proper tools....:rolleyes:....maybe when I get those, I'll feel better about it.

No laughing on my part....just pain memory....thanks! :p
 
First off never drill until your part is formed, fitted, & clamped into place. To remove hammer marks you need to planish. Basically, a back-up dolly (bucking bar) close to the shape of what you're working on. And a slapper (hammer) again shaped as close as possible to what your working on. The dolly is the back-up you place the buttcap on & tap with the slapper. Slap don't smack. Finish with sanding, buffing, then polish. If this is'nt clear enough do a research on sheet metal techniques. Think of a die same thing you're just doing it by hand. Oh yeah, use a scrap piece before doing the real thing!
 
Thanks Ernesto!! A lot of info in short paragraph.....

The alum. was just a trial to see the hard & easy parts of trying to do this.....made some mistakes & hopefully learned somthing from them. I'll probably test a piece of steel then actually fabricate the final piece. Yeah, some guys could probably do it right the first time in a day but what the heck, it's fun trying something new.

Thanks again
Steve
 
My buttcap is off, that's why it is bent. The thing was all hung up on the tang and couldn't be tightened by peening so I pulled it off. There was some rubbery epoxy stuff on the handle under the buttcap that I heated and scraped off. I want to fill the handle and polish it, then just put the keeper back on. If that doesn't turn out well I'll have to hammer the buttcap into shape and use it. Is it safe to put it on the horn and lightly hammer the buttcap into shape? I did this a little on a flat buttcap and I got a little crack in the horn, hopefully the piece doesn't fall off.
 
Skeletor,
I should have said mentioned that earlier....my mistake. I'd be a little hesitant about hammering on top of horn. Seems that the grain runs along the long axis and striking on the end of the grain could cause some splintering or fractioning of the horn. Since it's already off, place it on a block of wood that supports under the cap and lightly tap the bulge down. If you just place it on a block of wood and the cap has a rim you might flare the rims out.
 
Good one Fenyr! Glad to see you having a go, I think its good to learn new skills!

By the way make sure its mild steel not stainless! ;) Stainless is a pig!

fingers crossed!

Cheers,
Spiral
 
spiraltwista said:
fingers crossed!
Cheers,
Spiral
Click to expand...

That's kind of how I felt when I started this whole experiment.....if you ever need any delicate work done.....I'm definately not the guy :D

Yet!

Cheers,
Steve
 
I wonder if I have a dolly that might be usefull. What your saying is use a rounded piece of wood to hammer on, right?
 
I used to do a lot of this type of metal forming on coins and found that it works just as well on buttcaps.
I've used a hardwood 2X4 off of a pallet for this so it's somewhat easy to find the wood to do it with, you definitely need hardwood to do it on though as woods like pine and such are too soft to hold a nice formed depression while trying to form the metal.
And you definitely want to use the end grain for the forming; I have an old hackberry log in my workroom with a small anvil mounted on it.
When I want to form a piece of metal or a coin I use my ball peen hammers to make a depression in the end grain of the log.
This compresses the wood so that it doesn't deform to much more.
Sometimes I have to use my heavy hammer on the smooth face of my ball peen in order to make the depression large, and deep, enough for the metal to be formed.
After you have the depression in pretty much the shape you want simply lay the metal on top of it and place the ball on a ball peen on the metal then hit the face of the ball peen with another hammer to form the metal, saves getting your fingers mashed all to hell.:rolleyes: :p ;)
You will find that be doing this very carefully that you won't have to do any, or much anyway, sanding on the top of the metal formed.
I've done coins this way for mounting on my ndn regalia and you don't want the convexed side to be full of hammer marks or have the face deformed. The Eagle on my half dollar that I have on my choker turned out exceptionally well!:D
Hope this helps! Good Luck!;)

Edit:
The smoother your depression in the end grain of the hardwood the smoother the finished material so form it very carefully.
 
Come to think of it a half or silver dollar nicely formed would make a great buttcap!!!! I would definitely cut the keeper down a bit to make it round so as to show off more of the coin.
I think a silver dollar with the Eagle side convexed out would fit on my Foxy Folly.
I may, just may, have to try that on the one I'm gonna return to Art for rehardening.:eek: :D ;)
 
Thanks Yvsa and my fingers thank you!!

Nice to have your input....the more the ideas the better. I looked into the Silver Eagle....seems like the dimensions are a little small for the length of the cap on mine but would work on the Fox Folly.

Skeletor, in this case you don't want to create a depression so yes, a piece of hardwood carved to the approx. arch of the cap or a trailer hitch etc that has roughly the same angle to support the blows. Make sure you use the flat of the hammer and not the edge thereby creating more dings to have to smooth out.
 
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