Poor heat treat

SharpNP23

SharpNP23

Joined
Jul 3, 2023
Messages
5
Hey All,

This is my first post. I just caught knife fever last year and now I can't stop buying them, but I've still got a lot to learn about different steels.

I bought a MKM Makro 2 in M390, which is a steel many people I've talked to absolutely love. That said, the heat treat must be TERRIBLE because it's the softest knife steel I own. Even worse than crappy knives with Chinese steel from I bought online. It was almost... gummy...when trying to raise a bur and then remove it. Not sure that's the right word, but the chances of this edge chipping instead of rolling over are about zero.

So, now I have these beautiful fat carbon scales on a knife that's barely useable. I took them off and want to repurpose them for SOMETHING, but have no idea what and no experience trying to mess with the shape/profile of fat carbon scales so they fit a handle on a different knife. Any ideas or suggestions?

Thanks, Nate

[link to non-supporting dealer removed.]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I was just looking at your knife specs and they don't give any data on HRc of the knife.
If me, I would measure the blade hardness, contact the seller, tell him about the problem and ask for replacement or refund.
For that price I would be pissed, angry, full of rage and willing to... you know what.
 
TheOne45 said:
I was just looking at your knife specs and they don't give any data on HRc of the knife.
If me, I would measure the blade hardness, contact the seller, tell him about the problem and ask for replacement or refund.
For that price I would be pissed, angry, full of rage and willing to... you know what.
Click to expand...
The MKM site says 58-60, but I know it's less than that. Sucks
 
I have an Emerson like that. Won't get sharp no matter what. I'm not going to bother sending it in. I carry traditionals instead of tacticals anyway.
 
Have any of you ever used fat carbon scales from one knife and reshaped them to fit another? Maybe a dumb question but I hate to waste them. The knife I'm just going to scrap, I've messed with it too much to return it. Never buying a Maniago knife again. Looks pretty, but it's crap.
 
Sounds difficult, I assume they have holes drilled in them. You have to work around the shape and the holes.

Just throw it all away even if you repurpose the scales they will always bring up bad memories.
 
Poor heat treats are a possibility but might be rarer than one thinks. Before anyone decides that it's a settled case of poor heat treat and it becomes another "fact" repeated over and over maybe wait to decide and repeat until more facts are known. We have one new guy with no history and no knowledge of his sharpening skills amongst other things posting and people just seem to take it as fact because it sounds right. I have nothing to do with the business involved but if I did I'd sure want more evidence than this before people trashed my knife line and reputation.

I've seen way too many things accepted as fact over the years that later turned out to not be so cut and dried.
 
I agree with The Mastiff The Mastiff . I think it's more accurate to say that some of the Italian companies don't push the limits on getting the highest harness possible (within reason). But I also think that the truth is almost nobody pushes the limits on their heat treating. You have Spyderco, maybe Kunwu on some of their blades, maybe CRK on their Magnacut, but pretty much everyone else I can think of runs almost all their steel in the 58-60 area. So I don't think that said Italian company sucks, I think it's just the norm to not push the limits on getting optimal heat treats. Plus this particular issue could have also been due to a wire edge, an overly heated edge (which pretty much all companies also do).
 
Find a maker here on the forum and see if they can make you a small fixed blade with the fat carbon. Or, find a knife with slab style scales with the right dimensions and try and fit them yourself. Even if you mess up, if you want to learn the skill then it’s worth it for the future
 
Even Fantoni ran his soft. The HB03 in S125V was run at 60-61. Biryukov runs his S125V at 64.

I feel like most production companies don't run high hardness steels at what they are capable of. Whether that is due to cost, lack of skill, or assuming most people won't know, I'm not sure.

Spyderco for the most part has done a good job in my opinion. ~2014 S30V was a mess for them, but it was for other companies too. But XHP and M4 have been excellent, and I'm eager to test out my new Cruwear Yojimbo.

When it comes to ideal heat treatment, I find going custom is often the most reliable bet, especially in the stupid hard to finish stuff like S125V.
 
As far as my knowledge goes Bohler recommends for M390 hardness of 62HRc after tempering. This goes for industrial use. You can check hardness curve on original Bohler site.

I would say the first step would be to measure the hardness of the blade. It could indeed be the edge was overheated and softened when sharpened in production.


Just to add...
I have sharpened soft blades to shave and cut newspaper. Here is one of those marvels. It's one of those no name replicas. There's noting on the scales or on the blade, not even the 'Inox' word they usually put on low end knives.
The steel is soft and it does not hold the edge but I can't say it's not sharp.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1269i9a3kBABEyjPeRoOARO43_sa0JoVa/view?usp=drivesdk
 
No, I know how to sharpen. Not being defensive but I bought a Work Sharp Pro PA a few months ago when they first came out. My Spydercos, Tops, Benchmades, Bokers, Moras and Giantmouse blades are all sharp enough to slice phone book pages. Even a Travisa I bought on Amazon. And I was taught to sharpen by hand on an Arkansas when I was 9 by my old man. I appreciate the point though The Mastiff The Mastiff . I am a newbie when it comes to collecting and learning all the ins and outs of knife collecting. You're right about that.

I did some checking online yesterday and found this video, and it's the EXACT same knife I bought. I wish I would've found this before I bought the damn thing. 1 minute long.

 
LimpCroissant said:
I agree with The Mastiff The Mastiff .). But I also think that the truth is almost nobody pushes the limits on their heat treating,..
Click to expand...

LimpCroissant said:
but pretty much everyone else I can think of runs almost all their steel in the 58-60 area.
Click to expand...
For what it’s worth Crucible recommends a hardness up to 59, “although higher hardness may be used for increased wear resistance.”
I’d rather be able to strop the knife back to sharp instead of having to waste a lot of steel by doing a full sharpening because it’s chipped.
Too low is no good, but I don’t think I’d want 20CV over 61 either.
Most advertise 59-61, but I wonder how many of those actually hit 61…
 
Do you have a knife with known hardness that is softer than the 58-60 Rc claimed by the maker? Swiss Army knives, I think, are around 56 Rc. Randalls are soft, too.

The idea is to get some objective proof that the heat treat turned out soft. I did this with a blade I had custom heat treated to 60 Rc by a maker. It turned out to be much softer than he claimed, and I knew this from the blade's performance and by scratching it will a blade that was 58 Rc. The claimed 60 Rc blade could not scratch the softer blade, but the softer blade would easily scratch the so-called harder blade. (Photo below shows that scratching)

It is a nice looking knife design and the handles are awesome. You might be able to get one of the forum bladesmiths here to reharden that blade for you. Sometimes that works, and it's not very expensive. I had Bluntcut reharden a 3V blade that had a bad heat treat. It turned out great.

Good luck.

2v2HtjW4GxAWtWs.jpg



SharpNP23 said:
No, I know how to sharpen. Not being defensive but I bought a Work Sharp Pro PA a few months ago when they first came out. My Spydercos, Tops, Benchmades, Bokers, Moras and Giantmouse blades are all sharp enough to slice phone book pages. Even a Travisa I bought on Amazon. And I was taught to sharpen by hand on an Arkansas when I was 9 by my old man. I appreciate the point though The Mastiff The Mastiff . I am a newbie when it comes to collecting and learning all the ins and outs of knife collecting. You're right about that.

I did some checking online yesterday and found this video, and it's the EXACT same knife I bought. I wish I would've found this before I bought the damn thing. 1 minute long.

Click to expand...
 
tony281sc2 said:
For what it’s worth Crucible recommends a hardness up to 59, “although higher hardness may be used for increased wear resistance.”
I’d rather be able to strop the knife back to sharp instead of having to waste a lot of steel by doing a full sharpening because it’s chipped.
Too low is no good, but I don’t think I’d want 20CV over 61 either.
Most advertise 59-61, but I wonder how many of those actually hit 61…
Click to expand...
That's a very good point my friend. And I agree that there's a sweet spot for sure. When I was talking about how most run their blades at around 58-60 HRC, I actually wasn't talking about 20CV/M390. What I meant to say is that most production companies tend to run all of the steels they offer around that 58-60 HRC window, with many exceptions depending on the steel and company of course. I was speaking much more broadly.
 
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