Positive thoughts on knife/pocket knife for self defense.

Q

Quiet Priest

Joined
Jul 27, 2001
Messages
182
Every once in a while the subject of "knife fighting" comes up with friends and a common statement is "I’d pullout my gun…" Here in the forums often when someone asks about a which knife for self defense there’s lots of cracks about using a Glock instead. Honestly, although I have a concealed carry permit and several firearms I don’t often happen to have a pistol on me. Sometimes I do sometimes I don’t. A knife I do have on me almost all the time. At least one. Here’s some of the reasons why…

With a gun I believe you need to have a higher level of consciousness about it, that you do have it, that you do want it concealed and not disclosed, that you don’t want to loose it or misplace it. Most folders, even my Strider AR carry nicely clipped to your pocket with no discomfort, they are unobtrusive, and you don’t have to think about them until you need or want them. Because they are in your pocket and still mostly legal, they are harder than fanny packs or other bags to misplace because you have to take them on and off for whatever reasons.

You can easily carry more than one. Sometimes I’ll have one in my jacket pocket, where my hands are when it’s cold, one in my right pants pocket, maybe one in my left, one in my knapsack, one in my car and I’m not paranoid about loosing track of them.

Now, here’s the thought that really got me to writing this post: The accidents you can have with a gun can hurt those you don’t want to hurt. Even LEO’s that are good shots and intend to hit only the BG have on occasion hit an innocent bystander or passerby. I don’t make it out to the range much, I know that beyond say 15 feet my capacity to miss is real good. And then there’s the ricochet factor. I don’t know how I’d handle emotionally knowing that I killed an innocent bystander or two while trying to preserve my life, especially if the BG only got hurt or perhaps got away! My knife doesn’t have great range, but it will do sufficient damage to someone within my arms reach trying to do me or my loved ones harm. It won’t hurt the child looking out his window across the street. It won’t hurt the old lady with a bag of groceries rounding the corner. It won’t even hurt the good guy that happens to be standing near the bad guy on the subway. In a way, this elevates the tactical pocket knife to a higher ethical degree for the average law abiding person. It’s like a lethal self defense weapon for non violent people. Wow, how’s that for a rambling rant? How about it, has anyone else considered that the knife at times may be a superior choice as a self defense tool for the average person? Yeah, yeah, I know, don’t bring a knife to a gunfight…but this is for the person who wouldn’t go to a fight and would rather run the other way…

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all….
 
Originally posted by Quiet Priest
...and a common statement is "I’d pullout my gun…"
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I usually stop that comment in it's tracks by having my Mini Commander deployed before they finish. I ask them, "Here's my knife, where's your gun?" It can only help you when you have it with you.



It’s like a lethal self defense weapon for non violent people.
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Kind of have mixed feelings about this, because knife fighting is a very gruesome thing, and it takes a certain mindset to physically cut someone open or stab them, even in self defense. You don't have to get blood all over your hands, and feel the knife ripping flesh and muscle, and hitting bone when you use a gun. Knife fighting is very up-close and personal whereas using a gun can be done at a bit of a distance. These are just my personal perseptions. I have never had to cut or shoot anyone in self defense, but I have picked up several people that were cut very badly, and their wounds usually look worse than gunshot wounds. JMHO

Mike
 
Hello Quiet Priest, I appreciate your commitment to your fellow man but I believe you would be better off carrying both a gun and a knife.Both serve their purposes well but are somewhat different in the way that they accomplish that purpose. I think that too many people have that it will never happen to me line of thinking and just because you have a gun along doesn't mean you have to use it. You might live 80 years and mangage to get out of bad scrapes by running away ( which is usually the best move) but what about that one time where you are cornered and no where to go? Even in a knife fight, you are bound to get cut and a gun can help to keep the distance between you and the bad guy a little more comfortable. Nothing is full proof but I saw a lot of bodies in 18 yrs of LE that probably would have lived or been less seriously injured if they had some type of firearm with them. I would encourage everybody that can legally carry a firearm to carry one and practice with it and keep it in good condition. I believe a professor Lott did a study that estimated that 80% of deadly force encounters were stopped with just the mere display of a firearm. It would be a shame if something happened to anybody with their last thought being about the gun they left at home while they made a quick trip to the corner store. Good luck in whatever you decide. pistolpete
 
Medic: Good answer by whippping out the mini Commander...shows what I mean about it being handy and easily accessible. I bet most forumites could answer the same way (different knives.) Yeah the knife fighting thing will be ugly, but will limit the harm done to you and the bad guy, one of my concerns. Drawback is you stand to suffer harm too. I guess I think of this issue more when I'm in urban areas, with lots of people and a higher crime rate. Want to defend myself and loved ones if need be but then what about the throng around you?

Pistolpete: I wish it were easier to agree with you about having and carrying a firearm, is it easier in Texas? I live in Virginia where I have the CCW permit, work in Washington DC where it is absolutley positively illegal to have and travel through Maryland, Delaware, PA and NY often, where the permit is invalid, and if I carry I am then the bad guy. Also training and practice: when I was in the Corps (long time ago) and when I had more time (less family) I shot quite a bit. Now I seldom do.

I recently saw a video series about concealed carry and quick draw shooting, they were pretty good. But they require practice, lots and lots of practice to pull off. Firearm carry should bring with it the responsibility of regular practice of safety and use. Most civilian owners I know "just carry" if they ever used it I bet there'd be a lot more people hurt than the bad guy. My own lack of practice maybe gives me a guilty conscience about carry. So I consider it as "home defense" more than anything.

The knife however, doesn't require much training to use and can be more accesible than the gun. Granted the gun may provide a greater degree of safety to you, and maybe I am being a little squuemish about others being hurt in the line of fire. But I bet more often than not those that use the "I'd pull my gun" line wont have it with them when need because of the complexity and responsibility of carry whereas most us knife nuts would have knives handy all over the place. Too bad there isn't annnual mandatory training and qualifiication for gun owners, and the carry legalities are sooo screwy, otherwise I might carry more consistently and confidently (along with a knife!)

What the heck, while I'm off for the holidays, I'm gonna carry a bit just to get the groove of it a little, I will be mostly in my own state...
 
I have been thinking about this same topic....I don't believe I will ever carry a gun for self defense, for some of the reasons that Quiet Priest states. If someone were ever to pull a gun on me, I guess I am committed to some other course of action (most likely lots of stuttering followed by extremly erratic running).

I love carrying and using a good knife, but I am not sure about using it as a self-defense weapon. Maybe as a deterrent, but as soon as the other person pulls a knife as well, then the deterrent factor seems to diminish a great deal. Two guys really going at each other with knives seems like a really ugly scenario to me.

I have been thinking about a collapsible baton as a self-defense option. I can see myself actually using one on someone (only if I had to). More importantly, I think that I would actually have an advantage over someone with a knife. If I pulled my knife, and the other guy picked up a 3' section of copper pipe, I would think "OOPS! I wish I had a piece of copper pipe too". 3-4 inches of sharp steel just doesn't seem like a good match for 2-3 feet of blunt metal.

Thom
 
I once used a Sog Tomcast to intimidate a doper and it worked real good. It was in a parking lot when I was going to my car. The doper came up muttering threats---clearly to see if I was an easy mark. When I opened the knife, the look in his eyes changed in a flash, and he got out of there.
 
Hey Thom, guess what...I think Batons are even more illegal most places than a pocketknife, again, wierd laws and rules so if you had a small ASP and were involved in a confrontation, you'd be charged as a bad guy...I agree about it over a knife ( don't flame me please...)and sometimes have had one in the car by the drivers seat. But I really like having a folder clipped in a pocket.

There was a recent post about a young man who was senselessly attacked by a crazy vagrant as he passed by. While being pummeled on the ground the man was able to draw his Spyderco Police model and stick it to the guy beating him into uncounsciousness, that got him off and perhaps saved his life in this randomn act of violence. That's the sort of thing I'd be concerned about most, spontaneous random violence like that. A pocket knife proved invaluable in that one. Otherwise, I am capable of retreat and honorably departing a scene.

Chris: It's encouraging to hear that a deterrance can happen, but if I open a blade if any one of us do...we should be committed to using it if our assailant isn't deterred. That young man had said something like he knew he needed to do something before he lapse into unconsciousness or worse. Worth doing a search for the post and follow up... In quick, up on you, scenarios like that I'm not sure a gun is that quick...well, maybe...
 
I'm a gun guy,have had a carry permit for 20 years or so but I can't always have it on me,a knife almost always yes.Heres some examples.My kids play sports I coach one of them,this means I'm on school grounds 3-5 days a week most of the year, can't have a gun on school grounds.Then theres that little thing most of us do called WORK.Not many people can carry a gun at work can they?

I must say when I'm cutting the grass,sitting by the pool or in the hot tub I don't have a gun on me but a knife is on me or sitting next to me on the deck.:) When I'm out on our boat I bring a gun yet when we wade into shore to play on the beach I don't wade in with a gun over my head like a Marine,but I can easily put a folder in my hand and no one sees it.

Beleive me I carry a pistol often,more so than most gun owners,but anyone who says they ALWAYS carry a gun would almost always have to be one of 3 things,a liar,law breaker,or homebody.
 
i think the main point here for me is that if you arent a good shot its irresponsible to bring a firearm anywhere near innocent people. i agree with muggers and attackers etc getting their head blown off, I think that it should be ok for people to defend themselves but just like pulling a knife when you dont know how to use it is a bad idea, pulling a gun when you arent a good shot is bad too. The main difference is if you do so with a knife the only person who is likely to get hurt is yourself but with a gun it could be anyone.
 
Quiet Priest, sorry to hear about the goofy gun laws. I agree that there is a lot of responsibility in carry a gun and a person should try to train as often as possible and maintain their weapon. A gun is just another line of defense and I would always have a knife with me also. Most shootings are measured in feet rather than yards so if you are competant out to 7 yards then that is pretty good. A gun is not the great man stopper either at that range and even if you hit your assailant they will not always go down right away. I know of 2 incidents in Texas where law enforcement officers were in a very bad way and a citizen with a CCW stepped in and saved the officers life. I would encourage everyone to carry whatever you feel comfortable with but carry something and try to be proficient at whatever with it. I guess I am a little more concerned about carrying a gun as I have several friends that have been stabbed in the line of duty and a knife fight is ugly and frankly a guy with a knife coming at me scares me more than a guy with a gun and I would rather keep them from closing the gap with whatever I could. These are strictly my own oberservations and like I mentioned earlier, carry with what you can mentally and physically feel comfortable with. Good luck!
 
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