Possibly Restore WWII Knife?

J

Jemblade

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Aug 29, 2013
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Hey guys. My cousin found this old Western Knife Co. blade in the attic of the house he has been renting for a while. Based on my research this appears to be a G46-6 "Shark". Supposedly these were fairly popular during that period for young men to carry in theater, possibly an issue item.(?)

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He is interested in using this as his deer hunting knife. He originally asked for me to restore it when he found out I have started working on/ learning to make knives. After learning of the potential history of it he decided against restoring it and would just like it bringing it back to presentable. I talked him into keeping that patina of the blued blade.

My questions to you. How should I go about removing rust from the blade without removing the bluing and patina?



Also, it appears that someone either bent the guard down (it should be straight on both sides) or it is an aftermarket guard. Would one have to remove the leather spacers to install a new guard? Too me it appears that the original guard was bent down and they bends interfered with the spacers and causing a gap. This gap was filled with a thin gauge baling wire...

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Although it could be aftermarket as there are gaps on both sides of the blade...



I would like to see if I can either replace it or try to bend it back.
 
The gaps on each end of the guard are common. I have three with such gaps. Every Western sheath knife made for the Boy Scouts has a gap on the long side of the guard. Western seems to have just made the parts that way.

Bending guards was a GI pastime. Ditto for Marines. But usually they bent the top guard forward.

When I am trying to preserve a relic, "restoration" IMO being a theory like "honest politicians," I use a lot of mineral oil, rough paper or 0000 soft steel wool, and elbow grease. The black coming off over and over is the rust, until none/very little comes off. That prevents the knife from looking "new."

The biggest problem I have with Westerns is the rust between the tang and the ends of the leather handle sections. In some I have worked on, the rust has pushed the leather a good 1/8" away from the tang. I have found no really good answer. On one I reluctantly disassembled the handle at the owner's request, removed the rust with minimally invasive methods, and reassembled. I was not happy with the outcome. It looked "restored." There was still some gap at the tang. Oh well.
 
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Thank you for your reply Thomas. I read on one of these forums that submerging the whole knife and handle in veggie oil will allow for the leather spacers to absorb the oil and thus become more robust, supposedly getting rid of other gaps... Don't know how this works in practice.

Would something like a paper towel be abrasive enough?

Also, in regards to bending the guard, the only thing I could figure was that it was to make it look more like a KA-BAR. Functionally, I don't know what purpose this serves...
 
I have read about the oil dip. Some love it. Some hate it. I have never tried. I have tried all manner of up-scale leather treatments, and the leather never looks "new" and never "plumps up" much.

I use very coarse brown paper towels I get for a gas-station supply store (bottom-buck product). They are like very fine sand paper. Oil. Wait. Scrub. When I am done, the blades are still dark, and that seems "right" to me. Others seems to want to try to recapture the shinny "original" condition. Events have usually conspired to make that impossible.
 
Thank you for your helpful insights.

Say I was to want to try my hand at re-bending the guard back to original form, would I need to take the spacers off to remove it? I would be hesitant about removing the spacers, but also that I wouldn't be able to completely remove the bend.
 
Jemblade said:
Thank you for your helpful insights.

Say I was to want to try my hand at re-bending the guard back to original form, would I need to take the spacers off to remove it? I would be hesitant about removing the spacers, but also that I wouldn't be able to completely remove the bend.
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If you want to change what the soldier did, clamping the other end in the guard should, I think, provide leverage against that end of the guard as you change the other end. You can watch carefully and go slowly.

For my part, I try to conserve, not change. I got a helmet that had been creased by a Japanese round. I did not try to beat out the dent. But that's me.
 
I'd leave that old dog alone. I don't think it wouldn't make a good hunting knife regardless.
 
pjwoolw said:
I'd leave that old dog alone. I don't think it wouldn't make a good hunting knife regardless.
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And what is a good hunting knife! I've always enjoyed using the oldies and from the looks of this one it would make short work of a deer or a moose once it was sharp. Getting the gore and blood off the leather handle may be problematic if it was left on but long time users of carbon steel blade users learn quick how to take care of their stuff anyway.
 
Thomas Linton's advice on cleaning up the blade is spot-on. :thumbup:

The trouble with these cool old knives is that they're kind of an all-or-nothing deal... either rebuild 'em properly or just give 'em a fluff-and-buff, use them as-is, and hope for the best. It just depends on what it's worth to your friend and how much labor/money you want to put into it.

The blade's actually in pretty good shape, so if it's going to be a user (and I see no reason it shouldn't be), frankly I would look into tearing it apart completely and building a new handle, rather than continue to cobble together "fixes" on top of "fixes". I'll bet you lunch, that tang is a rusty mess all the way down. Be careful removing that pommel...

I'd be very hesitant to soak the existing handle in vegetable oil. That may help somewhat for a time, maybe, but veg oil has a disturbing tendency to go rancid... not something you want on any knife, much less one that will be used for food or processing game. I would try mineral oil or a purpose-made leather conditioner instead, if I were so inclined. It will protect the existing leather to a degree, but it's never going to be "plump" and new again. Again, I agree with Thomas... once leather's been neglected that badly for that long, you're pretty much out of luck.

ETA: you may be able to peel that rusty baling wire out from between the guard and handle and replace it something more durable. Perhaps thin stainless braided wire or cord wetted with super-glue or epoxy...
 
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pjwoolw said:
I'd leave that old dog alone. I don't think it wouldn't make a good hunting knife regardless.
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If it was my knife I would probably lean more this way myself. I think I will suggest leaving the guard aloe and look into the mineral oil dip or a leather conditioner to keep the leather from getting worse.

How about mink oil? I had done a melted mink oil treatment on my leather boots and it came out great, if a little dark. But since the spacers are already chocolate brown I don't think it should make much difference.

I definitely don't want to detract from the history on this, so I don't want to suggest doing anything drastic.
 
A WWII era relic found in the attic of a house he's been renting? it may well be that that knife would mean a lot to the original owner or their relatives, if it were at all possible to find them.
 
W.M.B. said:
A WWII era relic found in the attic of a house he's been renting? it may well be that that knife would mean a lot to the original owner or their relatives, if it were at all possible to find them.
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Maybe. Maybe not. Seems to me that if it was some kind of heirloom it wouldn't have been tossed in the farthest reaches of an old attic and then forgotten and left behind...
 
Jemblade said:
Maybe. Maybe not. Seems to me that if it was some kind of heirloom it wouldn't have been tossed in the farthest reaches of an old attic and then forgotten and left behind...
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How many urban/suburban modern folks even remotely have a use for a beat-up and tarnished belt knife anymore? I come across oldies like this regularly at widow's and Estate garage sales and since I'm a user and not a collector they stay there even though they're pretty much always 'free to good home' when closing time comes around.
 
300Six said:
How many urban/suburban modern folks even remotely have a use for a beat-up and tarnished belt knife anymore? I come across oldies like this regularly at widow's and Estate garage sales and since I'm a user and not a collector they stay there even though they're pretty much always 'free to good home' when closing time comes around.
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Exactly. We are not talking about a Purple Heart that was left behind that fell behind a shelf. This thing was forgotten about and it obviously didn't have any value to whomever left it behind. But it will have some value to my cousin whom could use it.
 
First, it's your property. Do with it what you will. Unless someone who lost it shows up. Then it's their property.

No one ever lost something they valued and could not find it? Just testing your "obvious" conclusion.

Heirlooms not not about utility. Most of them are fairly useless.
 
Thomas Linton said:
First, it's your property. Do with it what you will. Unless someone who lost it shows up. Then it's their property.

No one ever lost something they valued and could not find it? Just testing your "obvious" conclusion.

Heirlooms not not about utility. Most of them are fairly useless.
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Actually it is not my property, so it doesn't really matter what my opinion is.

That being said it seems fairly obvious to me that this was not something that somebody cherished. It was not lovingly tucked away. This was left behind.

I challenge you assertion about heirlooms. While many may not be used as a tool, as this one, they do have a use associated to them. Is an item that helps children or grandchildren remember their parents or grandchildren useless? Is something that has a sentimental value on it useless? I would say no.

If I had found this and a family member of whoever owned this came to my house asking for it I would give it to them because it would be the right thing to do. But that has not happened. Since my cousin has lived in his house for 2 years and just found it a month ago, it is probably not likely to happen.

I thank you for your opinion.
 
Well, there are enough theads around here with people posting pics of their dad or grand dads stuff that holds high value for them. It does not seem like a stretch to say that maybe some baby boomer or their kid would treasure the knife that landed at normandy on grandpa's belt, or whatever the actual story may be. I am truely sorry if I offended you by mentioning it. I just thought perhaps you had not considered it, and perhaps (I could not possibly know) it would not be that difficult to find out who the actual owner is and how they feel about it. I am not trying to suggest that what anybody here has done is wrong. Just putting out an idea. Maybe it would come to nothing, but if you could find the owner or his next of kin, you could possibly end up with a heck of a story to post here, which would perhaps be even cooler than the hunting knife.
 
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