Possibly stupid sharpening question

G

GraysonK

Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
153
Hi all,
I got the spyderco sharpening system because it was highly recommended for the amount of money I could afford to spend. But with most of my knives, the factory edge is like 22 degrees or 25...not 30 which is the lowest angle on the sharpener. How much of a difference is this going to make if I use it to sharpen my knives that have a 22 or 25 degree angle? Forgive me if I'm not using the correct terminology, I'm new to this. Most of my knife collection are old folders and pocket knives that I've gotten from my granddad. I've just gotten into collecting and using some higher end knives and I'm just trying to understand.
Thanks in advance,
Gray
 
If you want to mintain same angle as on your knives you need eather different system or make your own base or fix same rods in a wise... However you may just chose to go with 30 degree, I doubt it will affect too much cutting and the difference between 25 and 30 not too dramatic. You should not change entire edge, just very edge to make it sharp and eventually it all will be 30.

It is matter of personal preferences. Only bad steel require bigger angle, but this is not your case if you already have 22-25 degree. You may check first sharpen one knife on 30 degree and see difference.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
I would be surprised if your factory edges were at 22 degrees as Spyderco describes it. The Sharpmaker "30 Degree" slots are angled at 15 degrees from vertical. They are 30 degrees from each other. So the honing angle is 15 degrees and the edge angle (the angle between the two faces of the edge bevel) is 30 degrees. I suspect that your 22 degree edges would be classified as 44 degrees (rather obtuse) by Sharpmaker classification.

So ink the sides of your edge with a permanent marker like a Sharpee. Try honing with your Sharpmaker rods in the "40 degree" slots. If the ink is removed right up by the edge your factory edge is more obtuse than the Sharpmaker 40 degrees (it is ground to an angle greater than 20 degrees per side). In than case you will probably do all of your Sharpmaker honing in the 40 degree slots and improve your edge by reducing the honing angle down to 20 degrees per side.

You may need to clip some 220 grit Wet of Dry sandpaper onto your Sharpmaker rods for faster honing if your knives have more obtuse factory edges.

I hone knives to what Spyderco would consider 24-Degree edges (12 degrees per side). I do this by laying a rod crosswise under the middle of the Sharpmaker base and tipping the base left and right as I hone on the right and left rods in the 30 degree slots. I lower the honing angle by tipping the assembly so that the rods are more nearly vertical as I stroke.
 
GraysonK said:
But with most of my knives, the factory edge is like 22 degrees or 25...not 30 which is the lowest angle on the sharpener.
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I think Gray mean 22-25 full edge angle not half edge - because she compare it to lowest 30 degree sharpmaker angle (not 15). However factory edge may be bigger, for some knive.

I think this is may be not really factory edge, but whatever her granddad sharpened them to.

GraysonK said:
Most of my knife collection are old folders and pocket knives that I've gotten from my granddad.
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From other hand Barkriver Highland has 25 degree, Bark River Night Fighter - 22 degree. So for some factory edges angle really can be 22-25 degrees.

Thanks, Vassili.

Edited according to following comment.
 
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nozh2002 said:
I think Gray mean 22-25 full edge angle not half edge - because he compare it to lowest 30 degree sharpmaker angle (not 15). However factory edge may be bigger, for some knive.

I think this is may be not really factory edge, but whatever his granddad sharpened them to.



From other hand Barkriver Highland has 25 degree, Bark River Night Fighter - 22 degree. So for some factory edges angle really can be 22-25 degrees.

Thanks, Vassili.
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Um, I hope this doesn't cause any problems but I'm woman. I'm just an outdoorsy woman with a non-traditional female type hobby. It's my dad and granddad's fault. :) Granddad gave me my first knife when I was young and wanted to "whittle" like he did. Then dad got in on the act. I am just really interested in blades and like to collect the older ones, clean them up and exchange/show them off to my dad. I'm also a hiker, mountain biker, cyclist, etc so I'm interested in good, sturdy blades that get the job done. I've spent a lot of time in the hills of WV and will spend more. I'm not a hunter, but I do camp and do other stuff. The Benchmade Ascent that I got from dad years ago is my EDC.
Incidentally, I also make stuff out of paracord...got the idea to make bracelets and fobs for a fundraiser I was working when I ran across Stormdrane's blog.
Okay, that's enough for now. And thanks everyone for the info on the sharpener. I used the marker trick with my lansky system, but didn't think of it for sharpmaker.
Good info. Thanks
Gray
 
Well good for you, Graysonk. The knife world is way too often a sausage fest, which is stupid because everybody uses knives.

In case you didn't pick up on it (a lot of people don't because it's so simple it doesn't even occur to them) the previous posters both alluded to the fact that regardless of the angle your knives are at, if you sharpen the tippy tip or secondary bevel (the actual cutting edge) on the sharpmaker, the whole blade will eventually conform to your sharpmaker. In other words the longer you use it as an amateur I just want this thing sharp in the next five minutes sharpener, the better performance you will eventually get from it as the knife grinds down to the sharpmaker's specs. Alternately you can try the magic marker and really go to town one evening and rebevel your edges completely to sharpmaker angles.
 
bobofish said:
Well good for you, Graysonk. The knife world is way too often a sausage fest, which is stupid because everybody uses knives.

In case you didn't pick up on it (a lot of people don't because it's so simple it doesn't even occur to them) the previous posters both alluded to the fact that regardless of the angle your knives are at, if you sharpen the tippy tip or secondary bevel (the actual cutting edge) on the sharpmaker, the whole blade will eventually conform to your sharpmaker. In other words the longer you use it as an amateur I just want this thing sharp in the next five minutes sharpener, the better performance you will eventually get from it as the knife grinds down to the sharpmaker's specs. Alternately you can try the magic marker and really go to town one evening and rebevel your edges completely to sharpmaker angles.
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Thanks, Bobofish. I appreciate the encouragement. Something just occurred to me...when that other guy, I don't remember which at the moment, said that the total angle of the sharpmaker stones is 40 and 30 degrees, then does that mean that when I sharpen the knife, on the 40 degree for example, that I'm putting a 20 degree angle on both sides of the knife? Hey! That makes sense. Duh, I'm a dork.
And thanks for explaining about the sharpmaker. I am trying (and successfully at the moment) to learn free hand, having a devil of a time with keeping the angle. Anyway, thanks again. I do appreciate it.
Gray
 
I had a sharpmaker and I eventually just took the stones out and started free handing all my edges... if you have some cheap knives to practice on you might wanna give this a try. I've heard all free hand sharpenign eventually turns an edge into a convex anyway but I was able to get great results with my edges by doing it free hand. Now I'm moving into stropping them with varying grits of sandpaper... and hopfully soon will just buy or build a maching to sharpen with. Good luck. I find sharpening to be relaxing.
 
Um, I hope this doesn't cause any problems but I'm woman.
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No problem whatsoever. I think you will find that in knife (and also in firearms) forums, participation by women is welcomed and encouraged.
 
I don't know why Spyderco doesn't offer more popular angles on their Sharpmaker. But just checking the specifications on the Sharpmaker, the two angles are 30° (15° each side) and 40° (20° each side). I'd like to see an 11° each side setting, but I don't understand why Spyderco doesn't offer this.

I've heard people say that they put something under the right side of the sharpmaker, which reduces the angle on the left, and vice versa on the right.

You can, I suppose, use a protractor to determine angles and practice with that, but I wish Spyderco had included 11° slots.

BTW, one question I have about the Sharpmaker is this: does it hurt to use oil or water, or something to keep the rods from getting so dirty? My guess is that it would make the sharpening ineffective, but what's the best way to clean a Sharpmaker in the field?

Spyderco%20Sharpmaker.jpg
 
I would just clean the stones prior to being in the field. I use Bar Keepers Friend, and I am thrilled with the results. It is like a kitchen powder abrasive similar to comet but the kick is the oxalic acid in it.. This acid eats away the metal off your stones, leaving them metal build up free, and completely restored. I make a paste with 1 to 1 BKF and water, and apply it to my sharpening stones, I wait about 10 min, and then scrub with a stiff bristled brush. Be careful, the stuff is harmful to eyes, so do not let your brush fling this stuff around, do this with no kids around/distractions. IMO, anyone that plays with knives should have a 2.99 retail cylinder of BKF. I found it at a grocery store next to the Comet, but maybe next to the Brasso or Stainless Steel cleaner stuff. You can always ask the clerk. I never knew about it until someone else mentioned it on BF. You will learn alot here, enjoy!
 
anyone that plays with knives should have a 2.99 retail cylinder of BKF
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Based on a number of recommendations for using BKF, I just bought some last night. $2.49 at Safeway. Haven't used it yet to clean my Sharpmaker rods.
 
You really don't need to keep a precise angle as you hone. It looks nicer if you do and theoretically may reduce the amount of material you remove, but it doesn't greatly influence cutting. Think about broken glass. It cuts like crazy, but is never symmetrically beveled. The key is to have a low honing angle (thin wedge profile) and an extremely narrow edge apex (virtually invisible--on the order of a micron).

So mostly concentrate on honing at a low angle without marring your blade finish until you can't see any reflection off your edge. When you start out free-handing it is nice to put some tape on the side of your blade to protect it from scratches (of course leaving the area by the edge uncovered).
 
Swedge said:
Based on a number of recommendations for using BKF, I just bought some last night. $2.49 at Safeway. Haven't used it yet to clean my Sharpmaker rods.
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Great job, you beat me by 50 cents! Remember to watch where that stuff flings as you brush it. It is definitely acidic.
 
Better yet, wear glasses.

I used BKF the other night, and it got my fine Sharpmaker rods (the white ones) completely clean. Still some steel in the coarse rods, but the instructions say that the rods may not come completely clean the first few cleanings.

I took your suggestion of making a paste with water and BKF and rubbed that onto the rods and let them sit for a few minutes before scrubbing. Next time, I'll let them sit a bit longer.
 
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