potential new handle material: superwood

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https://techxplore.com/news/2018-02-wood-strong-titanium-alloys-lighter.html

Sounds cool - would be nice to have folders made from wood instead of titanium without sacrificing strength. Probably wouldn't work for the lockbar itself, but that's what sub-frame locks are for.

More info on their process:
Our two-step process involves the partial removal of lignin and hemicellulose from the natural wood via a boiling process in an aqueous mixture of NaOH and Na2SO3 followed by hot-pressing, leading to the total collapse of cell walls and the complete densification of the natural wood with highly aligned cellulose nanofibres. This strategy is shown to be universally effective for various species of wood. Our processed wood has a specific strength higher than that of most structural metals and alloys, making it a low-cost, high-performance, lightweight alternative. (source)
 
I don't know, I think that for the applications wood gets used for in knives I'd say diamondwood is strong enough.
 
Interesting sounding material, I'd be interested to see what they use it for, do you cut it with conventional methods I saw something about moldability in the early part of the process. Too many question and way too dangerous to be doing in a garage, that's for sure.

I'd be interested to see what happen after some thermal cycling tests, how it survives the elements over an extended period of time. Lots of stress testing needs to be done before any real world applications can be claimed. Problem is the claims are made, an article written and published but it really has no validated info, just claims of superiority. Based on what I did read I have to say this about 1 of the 2 chemicals they mention.

NaOH (click on link to left for full MSDS) is Caustic and very dangerous, Na2SO3 is a Caustic and (from PubChem MSDS sheet)

  1. Health Hazard
    Causes severe burns of eyes, skin, and mucous membranes. (USCG, 1999)
    Excerpt from ERG Guide 154 [Substances - Toxic and/or Corrosive (Non-Combustible)]: TOXIC; inhalation, ingestion or skin contact with material may cause severe injury or death. Contact with molten substance may cause severe burns to skin and eyes. Avoid any skin contact. Effects of contact or inhalation may be delayed. Fire may produce irritating, corrosive and/or toxic gases. Runoff from fire control or dilution water may be corrosive and/or toxic and cause pollution. (ERG, 2016)
    Strong corrosive action on contacted tissues. INHALATION: dust may cause damage to upper respiratory tract and lung itself, producing from mild nose irritation to pneumonitis. INGESTION: severe damage to mucous membranes; severe scar formation or perforation may occur. EYE CONTACT: produces severe damage. (USCG, 1999)
    Liquid is extremely corrosive to the eyes, nose, throat, upper respiratory tract, and skin. If ingested can form large volume of gas and lead to a gas embolism. (USCG, 1999)
    Corrosive, Reactive - 1st degree

It's nasty stuff and should never be handled by anyone unfamiliar with the chemical and it's inherent dangers without at the very least the safety protocol from the MSDS in front of them.

Just lookin' out for you folks, remember how when we were kids they used to give us mercury in our bare hands to play with. Didn't look for cuts or scratches, they just poured a couple ounces in your hand and let us poke it and play around with it while they explained it was a liquid metal.

People have been tryin' to artificially create a type of metallic wood by using one form of hardening agent or another, tryin' to replicate fossilized woods, basically we've been tryin' to make a stabilized wood, improving it's strength till we achieve a material as light and good lookin' as wood but strong as steel.

A lot of great ideas but in the end it's a durability issue, I don't think until they come up with a way to infuse titanium at the cellular level we're just chasin' rainbows and unicorns. I don't think in my lifetime I'll see a stabilized wood as strong as steel or carbon fiber. Even if they ome up with something as strong the question of durability, how many cycles can it successively complete before the failures become predominate ?

I don't ever see it replacing steel in the knife industry when materials like CF, G-10 and Micarta already fit the bill for most of what they claim their material does. I wish them a lot of luck, with such broad claims their gonna need it. One last comment, American manufacturers require a lot more info and destructive testing info before switching from a known to an unknown. The devil you know is better than the devil you don't.

Well at least I'm subscribed to the thread now ;)

Always lookin' to show off the South African maker JD Ellis' work, here's a knife that shows how far you can go with conventional modern materials replacin' what were previously metal components. For example liners, bolsters and frame. In the case of the Lanny's Clip the frame is G10, liners are linen micarta, bolster are canvas micarta as are the scales.

We already have an abundance of artificial building material available, you have to admit though, Mr Ellis most certainly exhibits a unique understanding of the properties of micarta and how to make it do his bidding. ;)

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Cool. Materials engineering is always awesome, no matter the context. I'd surely want a "superwood" framed knife someday, even if only for the novelty.
 
I don't know, I think that for the applications wood gets used for in knives I'd say diamondwood is strong enough.

In folders, wood is only ever used as an overlay. Given they're claiming this material is comparable in strength and toughness to carbon fiber, it could (theoretically) be used as the frame material itself - at least for everything except the lockbar. I'm thinking something like the Isham Eschaton, with wood instead of CF. That'd be pretty cool.
 
It's nasty stuff and should never be handled by anyone unfamiliar with the chemical and it's inherent dangers without at the very least the safety protocol from the MSDS in front of them.
I'm kinda assuming that the lye and other caustic chemicals aren't present in the final material. Lye is also used to cure olives and to make bagels - just using it in the process doesn't make the final product deadly.
 
I'm kinda assuming that the lye and other caustic chemicals aren't present in the final material. Lye is also used to cure olives and to make bagels - just using it in the process doesn't make the final product deadly.

I didn't mean in the finished products, for those always be aware of out-gassing, especially when using unknown combinations. The reason I said it is because we have many innovative tinkerers who even make their own micarta type scales. The armchair chemists are the ones I'm concerned with. The guy who decides to try and make his own and his only experience in chemistry is mixin' flavors at the self serve soda pop machine in Bob's Big Boy or Taco Bell's fast food joints. ;)

It's always best to go into anything like that over informed. Just my 2 cents worth YMMV.
 
In folders, wood is only ever used as an overlay. Given they're claiming this material is comparable in strength and toughness to carbon fiber, it could (theoretically) be used as the frame material itself - at least for everything except the lockbar. I'm thinking something like the Isham Eschaton, with wood instead of CF. That'd be pretty cool.
I guess it might be good for a linerless shadow pattern slipjoint.
 
I didn't mean in the finished products, for those always be aware of out-gassing, especially when using unknown combinations. The reason I said it is because we have many innovative tinkerers who even make their own micarta type scales. The armchair chemists are the ones I'm concerned with. The guy who decides to try and make his own and his only experience in chemistry is mixin' flavors at the self serve soda pop machine in Bob's Big Boy or Taco Bell's fast food joints. ;)

It's always best to go into anything like that over informed. Just my 2 cents worth YMMV.
I think it will be okay. It doesn't contain a substance known to the state of California to cause cancer!:thumbsup:;)
 
I'd like to shoot a piece and see how it fairs.

In the article they describe the researchers shooting it and the bullet being stopped and embedded in it, while it shot right through the non-treated piece of wood. But they don't mention the dimensions of either of those pieces. :p
 
Definitely interesting, but would it really be economical and/or practical for use in knives? Sounds pretty hazourdous and messy too. Might be more suited to other applications though.
 
OP is not talking about using the material for handle scales. He's talking about using them structurally in folding knives. As frame materials.

Exactly - the article compares it to carbon fiber. I could see it being used anywhere we see CF or G-10 today. A superhard alternative to stabilized wood for decoration only would be one thing, but then there are knives that use CF and G-10 structurally. Something with a natural wood pattern being used structurally would likely look cool, and may reduce overall weight.

I don't think we'd see it used structurally in hard use folders, same as CF isn't used structurally there. But for lighter use knives, why not? Like someone mentioned above, linerless slipjoints would be cool. Spyderco already has an entire line of knives that uses FRN structurally. This could be used similarly, but would look more natural.

Definitely interesting, but would it really be economical and/or practical for use in knives?

The article does mention it's cheaper than carbon fiber. As for practical - well, think about all the crazy materials knives currently use: meteorite, fossilized ivory, epoxy-impregnated paper (micarta), and even stabilized bull dung. Practical doesn't matter all that much if it looks cool :)

Sounds pretty hazourdous and messy too. Might be more suited to other applications though.

Carbon fiber and G-10 are quite hazardous, too, when you're working on them. I don't even know what's in carboquartz, but I can't imagine it'd be healthy to inhale. This material, if it's dangerous after being processed (like someone mentioned, from outgassing), then yeah, it'd be impractical. However, the article makes it sound like the crazy chemicals are used to dissolve some of the structure, and then removed. I would guess it wouldn't be any more dangerous than CF after it's finished.
 
Exactly - the article compares it to carbon fiber. I could see it being used anywhere we see CF or G-10 today. A superhard alternative to stabilized wood for decoration only would be one thing, but then there are knives that use CF and G-10 structurally. Something with a natural wood pattern being used structurally would likely look cool, and may reduce overall weight.

I don't think we'd see it used structurally in hard use folders, same as CF isn't used structurally there. But for lighter use knives, why not? Like someone mentioned above, linerless slipjoints would be cool. Spyderco already has an entire line of knives that uses FRN structurally. This could be used similarly, but would look more natural.



The article does mention it's cheaper than carbon fiber. As for practical - well, think about all the crazy materials knives currently use: meteorite, fossilized ivory, epoxy-impregnated paper (micarta), and even stabilized bull dung. Practical doesn't matter all that much if it looks cool :)



Carbon fiber and G-10 are quite hazardous, too, when you're working on them. I don't even know what's in carboquartz, but I can't imagine it'd be healthy to inhale. This material, if it's dangerous after being processed (like someone mentioned, from outgassing), then yeah, it'd be impractical. However, the article makes it sound like the crazy chemicals are used to dissolve some of the structure, and then removed. I would guess it wouldn't be any more dangerous than CF after it's finished.
Good points. Cool rulez!:)
 
:) Fascinating information ! I'd say let's wait and see . Too few details . I've seen so many exciting discoveries at the research level that never live up to the hype . Could spawn a revolution in structural materials or amount to zip .
 
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