Poultry Butchering Knife

[Flu5h]

Disclaimer: Animal Husbandry discussion ahead, but I do try to avoid any gratuitous detail.

I've mentioned elsewhere on the forum that I raise chickens for meat and eggs on a 'relatively' small farm. Specifically, I do ten batches of 200 birds across the growing season, which means ten slaughter days a year. We have a pretty efficient setup with three different positions that each use knives for different bird parts.

I'm looking for 4-6" stiff butchering knives, no more than 1" wide, and good thin geometry be it a hollow saber grind or high flat grind. I'm open to any and all suggestions, but that size/geometry is about what we currently use for the initial slaughter and parting work. The evisceration position uses ~3" super thin blades that I'm not worried about replacing right now.

Ideally I'm looking for the best commercial kitchen steel I can get for the price, though I'm a sucker for a super steel that checks all the boxes and I would probably treat myself if I find it. That being said, just about anything would be better than our current no name steels. Here's what I've found that looks interesting so far, all above a price that really makes sense for a commercial context.

Kizer Kwaiken Nitro V -This seems like a reasonable option, at least as good as my Wusthoff X50CR15MoV at home

Slic Knives Curve 4.5 N690co -This kind of checks all the boxes, but is the priciest

Warther Cutlery 5" Sandwich Knife -Anyone try this company? The scaled-pattern look is pretty silly, but the shape, geometry and steel are quite nice for the price. Is this trash magnacut or something?


Spyderco Kitchen Utility 4.5” MBS26 -Nice size, very thin geometry, steel similar to VG10(?) and an okay price. The handle seems like it might be small with the bump at the end.

Caribou Custom Knives -Very interesting! I think these are commercial production knives in s35vn. No prices and maybe more expensive for a silly American like myself. I guess you have to call them directly and order a box.


I certainly get the case for just going with a cheap production blade like Dexter, Victorinox or Mercer. I think some of the Mercer knives come in X50 or X35, and that does make a lot of sense for a full production job day in and day out where you've gotta hone multiple times a day. I guess my contention is that I only need it 10 days a year, and I want it to hold the sharp edge for slicing necks, feet and scent glands through each day of ~200 birds. I know skill for avoiding bone is a huge factor, and I mostly do that, but I normally use 2 knives and resharpen/hone (with a crappy pull-through) at least twice during a session of about 3 hours.

Open to any suggestions or opinions! Thanks!

 

[garry3]

Sounds like you are looking for a Hankotsu or a small Honesuki, Japanese boning, butcher knives.
Do a little looking around and you should be able to find something that will serve you well with out breaking the bank, spend as little or much as you want.


I used to do that chicken butchering thing when I was growing up, just once a year though.

 

[sodak]

I don't have any ideas for you, I generally use Victorinox boning knives with the plastic/rubber handles. They stay fairly non-slip when wet with blood and fat. The only part of my process that might be challenging is removing the head. I've seen others use a knife, but I can never find the right gap in the vertebra, so I use this:

Old Hickory 76-7" Cleaver

First introduced in 1924, the Old Hickory® knives are the most venerable product line still in active production. The Old Hickory® knives feature a hardwood handle secured with brass compression rivets to 1075 carbon steel blades that are both very sharp and capable of retaining an edge better...

ontarioknife.com

For the rest of the cutting, I'm cutting just skin and only in the gaps of joints. I usually do 2 - 3 sets of 30 birds a year, plus a couple of turkeys around Thanksgiving.

I'll be interested to see if you find what you like, I try to always be open to new ideas.

 

[Crag the Brewer]

Can you give more details on use?

My sister raises chickens. It's been my job to kill them.... I generally hang them upside down in cones after gently swirling them upside down to calm them.

I slit their throats pretty easy.

After bleed out I Chop off their heads with a heavier knife.

What I'm getting at is in my head, you will need multiple knives for different rolls.

What specifically is the job you are looking to do?

Killing?
Chopping heads/feet?
Internal work/gutting?
Separating the various cuts of meat?

As far as steels go....?
For rough cutting and slicing, cutting hides, meat, tendons....Stuff.
I like carbides.

D2
M2 (care for rusting potential)
M4 (care for rusting potential)
Cruwear
Magnacut

 

[Taz]

Hankotsu: https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kanehide2.html
Honesuki: https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kabesestho15.html These are designed for poultry break down and are often right or left hand specific.

Petty Knives may also work, but will have some flex:

TOJIRO CLASSIC DP Boning/Utility 150mm

With their CLASSIC DP line of knives, TOJIRO has established an industry benchmark for value-oriented performance cutlery. These knives marry wonderful grinds, balance, and expertly treated premium steel with durable Western handles made of black stamina wood to create one of the bestselling...

www.chefknivestogo.com

MAC Chef's Series Utility Knife 135mm

This is a perfect little utility knife for the budding chef in your family. MAC knives from Japan are well known for their value and overall quality of construction. The MAC Knife Chef's Series of cutlery is a value-priced line made for a variety of tasks and users. It features the same...

www.chefknivestogo.com

I did this Honesuki for a guy recently:

 

[Flu5h]

Can you give more details on use?

Yeah totally.
My friend who does the kill slice in the cones uses a 6” F. Dick boning knife and has to resharpen/hone often. That’s perhaps the most important one to have the best edge retention to make that stage as quick and painless as possible. Of course, he probably hits bone while aiming for the arteries.

This is a major point of interest to me regarding edge retention vs toughness. Bone is a weird spongey material, so I am not sure if it dulls blades due to chipping or rolling. My guess is that as long as your pulling straight through the cut for a kill slice, the chance of chipping a high wear resistance/low toughness steel might not be bad.

Stainless steel is key because we store the blades under a barn roof outside, so they’ve gotta be as easy as possible to maintain.

We actually use shears for the necks which work very well, and I’ll probably attempt to sharpen them to see if I can make them even better.

The last knife I’m looking for is what I use for separating the feet and scent gland, typically a 4.5-5.5” steak knife kind of thing. One of mine is bent so I need to replace it anyway. When the blade is actually sharp, I only have to touch it to the joint, then I let gravity open it up as I slice through. Usually minimal bone contact, but enough that I inevitably switch blades or touch it up with the crappy pull-through.

This will be the first season where I’ve hand sharpened the blades, so there should already be some improvement. But since I’m looking for a few new knives anyway, why not get a better idea of what’s out there.

 

[Taz]

Tougher steels will be able to hold a thinner edge. Something like AEB-L or Nitro V or 14C28N has little (both tiny size and lower amounts) carbides, but can be taken up to a higher hardness (62-63) to help with edge retention, which still being very tough and not as chippy. Think of attributes of a good, carbon blade, (easy to sharpen, fine edge taking, super tough), but it doesn't rust since it's stainless. It doesn't have the higher wear resistance/edge retention of something like Magnacut, but it's super easy to bring back to sharp and is very tough. I use Nitro V on fillet knives and people have cleaned 40+ fish with one and it was still sharp. With the thinner edges, the knife feels sharper, longer.

I wish CKTG still had their Artifex series. They had a 6" petty, honesuki and hankotsu in 60 HRC AEB-L with slightly thicker edges for under $100 each. These would have been perfect! Actually, I may have some here still. Let me check when I get home for you! I know where the Honesuki is (I used it to model for the above one I made in magnacut), not sure about the others.

 

[Crag the Brewer]

You are about to walk through the door into high performance knives.... There is no going back.

At work, a guy I know is a semi-pro trapper.
He has killed more things than Most on my side of the state.... When I told him that I was making knives, and I asked if he'd test one out for me. He agreed.

I was telling him about some high speed steel that I was using, and that it should last a long time. It Should hold it's edge for a very long time.
He nodded his head. He heard it all before. He's been doing this for a good 50 years. He knows the in and outs. He kills and cleans many hundred of raccoons, possum, skunks, minks, etc etc each season. The pictures are intense.

I was getting the feeling that he wasn't really believing me....ok.
I asked him about his knives. He said he was very particular. Modern knives just didn't hold an edge. He'd search out for older stuff.

He said that he sharpens a good 12 knives, all lined up on his table. Then go to work, cutting and cutting all the critters, not wanting to stop to sharpen.

Ok, so hunting and trapper season is over, I see him later on. He's ordering another knife. Never seen anything like it. He cleaned everything with my one knife. Unheard of.
I told him it would be good. M2 has lots of carbides, and it's over 64HRC. Very Hard. It just cuts and cuts, all day.

The next one he wanted was supposed to be more precise. For caping, and detail cutting, hitting skulls and bones, trimming. He wanted it more point focused.

I made it for him, he loves it.
Idk why, probably cause it's so comfortable in the hand.....he used it to clean and dress the bear his wife shot. I've never dressed a bear, but he says it's horrible on knives edge. He was saying the fat
But that doesn't make sense to me? Idk?
Anyhow....he spent over 5 hours using it on the bear, said it was still super sharp afterwards.











*And all that wasn't in a "super steel" wait until he tries some Cruwear..... haha.

 

[garry3]

Tougher steels will be able to hold a thinner edge. Something like AEB-L or Nitro V or 14C28N has little (both tiny size and lower amounts) carbides, but can be taken up to a higher hardness (62-63) to help with edge retention, which still being very tough and not as chippy. Think of attributes of a good, carbon blade, (easy to sharpen, fine edge taking, super tough), but it doesn't rust since it's stainless. It doesn't have the higher wear resistance/edge retention of something like Magnacut, but it's super easy to bring back to sharp and is very tough. I use Nitro V on fillet knives and people have cleaned 40+ fish with one and it was still sharp. With the thinner edges, the knife feels sharper, longer.

I wish CKTG still had their Artifex series. They had a 6" petty, honesuki and hankotsu in 60 HRC AEB-L with slightly thicker edges for under $100 each. These would have been perfect! Actually, I may have some here still. Let me check when I get home for you! I know where the Honesuki is (I used it to model for the above one I made in magnacut), not sure about the others.

Chopper King makes what they call a boning knife in AUS-10, $30.

I use one of their cleavers bang for the buck would be really hard to beat.

Chopper King AUS10 Boning Knife 145mm

Chopper King AUS10 Boning Knife 145mm. This is a nice, handy boning knife at a good price using very good AUS10 stainless steel. Weight: 3.8 oz (110 g) Blade Length: 144 mm Total Length: 282 mm Spine Thickness at Base: 2.0 mm Blade Height: 39.2 mm Steel Type: AUS10 Stainless Steel Blade Grind...

www.chefknivestogo.com

 

[Taz]

Found either the petty or hankotsu?



Yeah, the chopper king honesuki would be a good option too!

 

[sodak]

I know you said stainless, but hear me out. For the kill stroke, on one batch of 60 birds, I used a Bark River caping knife in CPM-3V. I tend to make a hard deep cut so I know it's a good cut and I don't have to do a second one. Faster and more humane.

It worked great and didn't dull at all. Sometimes, for that cut, smaller is better, and it's easier to NOT slice your own hand.

What do you use for plucking after scalding? I plunked down the money on a Yardbird and never looked back. Two birds at a time in 15 sec, easy.

 

[Carboniferous]

Disclaimer: Animal Husbandry discussion ahead, but I do try to avoid any gratuitous detail.

I've mentioned elsewhere on the forum that I raise chickens for meat and eggs on a 'relatively' small farm. Specifically, I do ten batches of 200 birds across the growing season, which means ten slaughter days a year. We have a pretty efficient setup with three different positions that each use knives for different bird parts.

I'm looking for 4-6" stiff butchering knives, no more than 1" wide, and good thin geometry be it a hollow saber grind or high flat grind. I'm open to any and all suggestions, but that size/geometry is about what we currently use for the initial slaughter and parting work. The evisceration position uses ~3" super thin blades that I'm not worried about replacing right now.

Ideally I'm looking for the best commercial kitchen steel I can get for the price, though I'm a sucker for a super steel that checks all the boxes and I would probably treat myself if I find it. That being said, just about anything would be better than our current no name steels. Here's what I've found that looks interesting so far, all above a price that really makes sense for a commercial context.

Kizer Kwaiken Nitro V -This seems like a reasonable option, at least as good as my Wusthoff X50CR15MoV at home

Slic Knives Curve 4.5 N690co -This kind of checks all the boxes, but is the priciest

Warther Cutlery 5" Sandwich Knife -Anyone try this company? The scaled-pattern look is pretty silly, but the shape, geometry and steel are quite nice for the price. Is this trash magnacut or something?


Spyderco Kitchen Utility 4.5” MBS26 -Nice size, very thin geometry, steel similar to VG10(?) and an okay price. The handle seems like it might be small with the bump at the end.

Caribou Custom Knives -Very interesting! I think these are commercial production knives in s35vn. No prices and maybe more expensive for a silly American like myself. I guess you have to call them directly and order a box.


I certainly get the case for just going with a cheap production blade like Dexter, Victorinox or Mercer. I think some of the Mercer knives come in X50 or X35, and that does make a lot of sense for a full production job day in and day out where you've gotta hone multiple times a day. I guess my contention is that I only need it 10 days a year, and I want it to hold the sharp edge for slicing necks, feet and scent glands through each day of ~200 birds. I know skill for avoiding bone is a huge factor, and I mostly do that, but I normally use 2 knives and resharpen/hone (with a crappy pull-through) at least twice during a session of about 3 hours.

Open to any suggestions or opinions! Thanks!

That Warther sandwich knife looks like a great shape overall, if it's actually magnacut and properly heat-treated and comes with thin geometry then that seems like a pretty cool knife. Definitely interested if anyone has experience with them

 

[RPZIP]

Just some examples of what might work for a reasonable price.

Masahiro honesuki single bevel (righthand), 5 3/4" blade. Very stiff, unspecified Japanese carbon steel.

Second is a (made in USA - nos) Chicago Cutlery utility knife, 6" blade unspecified high carbon stainless. Blade is quite stiff and more akin to a boning knife than a utility knife in my opinion, but really good for both.

I will second Tojiro as great value for money. Steel is good and they come sharp out of the box.

MAC in my opinion are also very good but tend to be more expensive. Also I have seen some obvious MAC knockoffs on eBay for ridiculously low prices.

 

[Flu5h]

Thank you all for such great suggestions and anecdotes! Just the kind of stuff I was looking for. Crag and sodak's stories definitely give me hope that the steel can make a big difference for both the kill and the butchering. Also Crag, and Taz, you both make some beautiful knives!

Taz, I think you're on the right track with going for one of the AEB-L style steels, they really do check all the boxes and are so much more affordable. Although, I certainly had my eye on that Magnacut Honesuki, and will probably save up for one like that for myself.

Carboniferous, I second the Warther question. It seems too good to be true, but if no one around here has tested it, I might have to bite the proverbial bullet.

sodak, we use a Featherman scalder and plucker that both fit 4 birds. The kill position uses a rotary rack with 8 cones. We usually have a team of 5-6 people, 2 of us on the "dirty" side and the rest eviscerating. It's a pretty efficient setup, we usually fininsh the 200 birds and cleanup in about 3 hours, then we bag them in the afternoon over a couple hours.

We just got our seasonal batch of 350 pullets (young hens) last week, and they came with a lot more stress than usual. There was a lot of pecking and I had to dispatch those with mortal wounds; it's a sad part of the job for sure, and the saga has been my main focus this past week. It was the first time I used a folding knife for that job, my new Manix 2 Salt LW! It was like a lightsaber! It made such quick work of 10 necks with absolutely zero edge damage that I'm certainly convinced of the prowess of Magnacut. Luckily the stress and pecking has been subsiding, so I happily disassembled and cleaned the Manix with the hope that I won't have to use it for that again anytime soon!

 

[smith357]

I use two knives for breaking down poultry. A Chinese cleaver for splitting and going through bones, and a curved flexible boning knife for going around bones.

I find super steels for high production kitchen knives to be a waste of time, they take too long to sharpen when the eventually get dull, my standard blades are brought back to snuff with a few strokes on a the steel.


As for the Warther, I have used one of their chefs knives for 20 years, very thin and light, it is my go to general use kitchen knife. If you ever make it to Dover Ohio the Warther Museum is a must see.

 

[Crag the Brewer]

I also Love AEB-L, and NitroV, and 14c28n (for practical layman's terms, they are the same/similar)

But........ I only like them at 62HRC for woods/hunting-like knives, and harder, up to 64HRC for kitchen/chef's.

It kinda is Meh/sucks not worth owning at 60 and less

 

[Taz]

Yeah, 60 is a bit soft, but still better than the mid-high 50's stuff Victorinox/Fibrox/Dexter. 62 is my sweet spot, but I want to try a little harder in some applications!

For quick touch ups, try a leather strop with diamond compounds. Get a 20 ish micron diamond compound (I tried some 40 and 14, not much difference between them in useage from what I have seen so far) and something around 3-1 micron. 5-10 swipes on the strop on each grit and you are usually back up and running!

 

[Flu5h]

Yeah I recently read Larrin's article on AEB-L and couldn't believe it could go as high as 65, it has a pretty sharp curve for the heat treat. Does anyone take 14c or Nitro V into that upper range?
I agree with you too Taz, that 60 would still be better than what I've got.

I sharpened a bunch of the chicken knives this winter for practice, but then I went and sharpened my new pocket knives in Nitro V, 154cm and Magnacut and holy crap it was night and day. On the better steel the burr just develops more predictably and evenly, and it's so much easier to remove.

I was first using a chromium-oxide stick that came with a strop, but then I got a nicer 4 micron diamond paste (I had ordered 8 micron, but figured it was a mistake I wasn't mad about). The existing chicken knives' steel is so soft that I've really gotta minimize the burr significantly on the stone before I can go to the strop, but perhaps the 20ish micron range would be good for a small strop during the slaughter.

 

[sodak]

Flu5h, you've hit on a very old myth that I (and others) have been trying to bust for years. For some reason, people thing that high carbide steels are harder to sharpen then low carbide steels. Nothing could be further from the truth. What matters is geometry and hardness.

I have a Phil Wilson custom hunting knife in CPM 10V at 64.5 that is extremely thin. I can easily get it from "drag across your wrist without worry" dull to hair popping sharp in 2-3 min tops. Sharp enough that you can pass the knife over your skin, and it shears and pops all the hair off without touching your skin. On the other side, I have some 1095 knives that are about mid 50's HRC, and it takes a while to sharpen them, the stupid floppy burr just keeps flopping over from side to side, very frustrating.

Not to mention the CPM 10V will hold it's edge dozens of times longer than the 1095 will.

 

[Crag the Brewer]

I've got a bunch of AEBL coming in from Bos this week, I believe at 64HRC