Pounding mushrooms

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Gator39

Joined
May 13, 2017
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I have a few axe heads that are very mushroomed from beating on the back, 'poll' I guess is the correct term.
I don't want to file off that much material to straighted them out and pounding on them cold just doesn't seem to be getting the results I was hoping for.

My question is , would it be helpful or damage the heat treating on the bit if I try heating the poll up red hot to beat the mushroom back down ?
 
If you are quick about it no problem.
Heat to transfer beyond the eye it slowed by the open space. Its also easy to keep the bit side quenched if it starts getting too hot.
 
Gator39 said:
I have a few axe heads that are very mushroomed from beating on the back, 'poll' I guess is the correct term.
I don't want to file off that much material to straighted them out and pounding on them cold just doesn't seem to be getting the results I was hoping for.

My question is , would it be helpful or damage the heat treating on the bit if I try heating the poll up red hot to beat the mushroom back down ?
Click to expand...

If you wrap the bit in wet newspaper you should be able to get the poll red hot and hammer it back.
If you got the poll just barely red an axe head has enough mass that the bit probably wouldn't get too hot, but the wet news paper will make sure it definitely doesn't get hot.
 
Kevin Houtzager said:
Bucket of water: Place it in with the poll sticking out. Get torch, heat it.
Click to expand...

I feel like that type of immersion would transfer enough heat away that heating the poll properly would be tough. Also, as soon as you remove it from the water to hammer it the heat will start transferring to the bit anyway. I think that the wet rag is the way to go.

What about stuffing a wet rag into the eye with the thought being to have it suck heat away at the eye and not letting much of it ever get to the bit?
 
I've had some success hammering in mushroomed polls at low heat. Recall that poll deformed cold. Some material will go back cold or at low heat. The drawback in doing this is that the cold-hammered steel will lose some of it's structural integrity. But if it's not a hardened poll and is just used to balance the axe then this doesn't really matter. Hammering a poll can allow you to save a makers stamp when filing a poll. Even heating to just a few hundred degrees F will help.
 
Thanks all.
Good ideas.
I was trying to save some makers stamps and that's why I'm probably being a little more ' delicate ' with them than normal.
1 appears to be a Maine style head with a stamp on both sides very close to the edge of the poll.
 
The wet rag is the standard method that blacksmiths have used for centuries. In the past a dipper was kept in the quench tank and used to keep the rag wet - also to control the heat of the coal. Now it's easier with the spray bottle or pump sprayer, though dippers are still used. It doesn't produce any hot/cold stress because the heat is a continuum. It just isn't able to spread past the rag so long as the rag is kept wet.

There's no harm in heating the eye because the eyes aren't hardened anyway. Eyes are left soft intentionally so the wedge doesn't crack them. Occasionally the freeze/thaw cycle will still crack a wedge. There is a limit to how much expansion they can take and the steel is more brittle in cold temperatures. A common cause of a cracked eye is a rotten handle acting as a wick. As the saturated wood freezes it swells and cracks the eye.
 
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The wet rag method can also be used to fix expanded eyes on axes that have been mis-used as wedges.

Protect the bit with the rag. Heat one side of the eye with a torch. The other unheated side will resist bending - metal moves first where it's hottest. After one side is straight, quench it and repeat for the other side. I've done this to half a dozen eyes.
 
Kevin Houtzager said:
Ok, didn't know that? I can imagine it working to cool an edge, as I have done as well. Not because I knew that was the right thing to do, but because it came to mind.

You have a point there, eye's aren't hardenable because of the lower carbon content. Should have though of that!
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Actually some axes are made of one steel so in theory the eye could be. But, as long as the rag it kept wet, it and the eye walls can't go past 212 degrees and therefor the bit beyond it can't get too hot either. The trick is to keep water in the rag. If it dries out all bets are off.
 
While we are on this subject.........
After the vinegar soak, turns out I have a couple with no hamon line or very little line.

Is all there is to hardening the blade properly is heating it up red hot and quenching in water ?

Would I be able to make a properly hardened bit this way?
 
To get it "red hot" & quench in water will harden, but you wont know much else.
It may be too hard, possibly crack. To do it right, you need to get to the correct temperature & quench in whatever quenchant is right for the particular steel alloy and the level of hardness you are wanting.
 
Gator39 said:
While we are on this subject.........
After the vinegar soak, turns out I have a couple with no hamon line or very little line.

Is all there is to hardening the blade properly is heating it up red hot and quenching in water ?

Would I be able to make a properly hardened bit this way?
Click to expand...
Sounds like a good time to learn. I would assume a simple carbon steel and go from there. Plenty of information here on this site on heat treating.
 
Aahhh.......so thats why I have a newerish Vaughn head with no hamon and a older 1 with a deep hamon ?

Learning new stuff all the time.
That's why people say " you don't know what you don't know " !

And I do know I really don't have enough experience with a file to tell much difference.
 
Gator39 said:
Thanks all.

Good ideas.

I was trying to save some makers stamps and that's why I'm probably being a little more ' delicate ' with them than normal.

1 appears to be a Maine style head with a stamp on both sides very close to the edge of the poll.
Click to expand...

Yeah, nice old axes used as hammers need special help. Mushrooming with that sharp edge rolled over most of an otherwise readable stamp is my "favorite". Even better is if the stamp you want to keep also bulges up into your sharp mushrooming!

If I'm following what I think you are describing - I can only comment on moving some of it cold and using a file to keep as much of the mark as you can. That can be the least invasive but sometimes as time consuming as reprofiling a damaged bit.

Sometimes stopping short is fine too. I opted to stop on this head to keep the mark. This axe for example has a lot of cheek, is wide enough that the mushrooming is not going to catch on anything. The mushrooming is still evident but it is rounded/smooth to the touch:


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This 5lb Lakeside was mashed pretty bad, flanged out, and had a couple of jagged spots. Kind of depends on the situation as what your expectations will be.

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Here are some things that I do or keep in mind for myself:
1. Run electrical tape around the head covering your stamp right under the mushrooming. Twice even. Of course a file or grinder can remove it but it gives you a reference and can be scraped a little before poke-through (poke-through is bad in most situations lol).

2. A stand-alone anvil, something used as an anvil, or a vise with an anvil plate is helpful. Use a small hammer to lift the edge of the mushrooming up and back from the mark a little bit. Also, removing the mushrooming off the opposite side first (the one now contacting the anvil surface while you knock down the stamped side) gives you some more control/stability to tap the lip back without messing up the rest of the area too much.

3./4. Flat file the mushrooming off while trying to get several angles of attack - trying to get at it from the stamp to mushrooming has left me the most intact stamp in many cases but that can be tricky depending on how long the axe head is.

If the "mushrooming" is really more "poll deformation" after flat filing the sharp lip off, you can use an appropriately sized hammer to maybe push a little more of it back into place before continuing your grinding - electric or manual. Doesn't hurt to bang, file, look, bang, file, look, etc.

* In some cases I've found hammering it down before pushing some of it back first can cause the lip of the mushrooming to curl over the stamp even more, making it harder in the end to clear it off/away from the stamp (because it is now flatter but material is more in the way when your file strokes become more shallow to match the plane of your poll/cheeks).

* As your filing angle flattens/becomes more parallel to the face of the of the poll on many heads you get closer and closer to swiping the cheeks/center of the axe by accident. We all know scratching the patina off of an old axe is a "First World Axe Issue". Here is a trick I use to keep myself from scratching up the rest of the head while filing the poll or reprofiling a bit - wrap the first 1"-1.5" in of your file in tape. Errant or unintentional contact with the face is at least lessened. I guess that also depends on how long your file is and the overall shape of your bit.

Pictures would probably speak volumes. I will try to take some of what I'm on about when I next do it.

Keep in mind I have never forged anything or heated up a poll to work on it so this doesn't contradict any of the great advice presented here but all this blah blah might be helpful along the way - hot or cold. :)
 
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