POWDER STEEL-What is it?

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Mar 12, 2003
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The CPM=Crucibal particle Metalurgy(i hope it spells that way) is an exampel of powder steel,i have heard,but what does "powder" stands for? What is the advantages of powder steels? I have read about very expencive Japanese powder steels with a rather high Rockwell hardness at 64-65,and that they should be very good steels and are up and comers in the future knife market.
Does anyone have opinions and thoughts in this matters?

Manowar
 
Sounds nifty, but how do you sharpen it, and is it's breaking point (brittle) compromised by the high RC?
 
I forgott to mention that i don´t have any powder steel knives my self(yet)!!!!!I am just curious about POWDER steels.

Manowar
 
Since alloys are formed by pressing together the "powder", you can get alloys that you normally couldn't get when melting the components to a liquid state.
 
Check out Crucible's website for info on their process and on their steels.
<www.crucibleservice.com/products.cfm>

Their steels are alloyed, melted, then solidified in a vacuum and compressed and welded under pressure without oxidation. The website explains it in some detail.

Their process differs from earlier powder steel methods which were sintered and did not produce the same end product.
 
Here's my quick and dirty version of the full story on Crucible's site.

Dontcha hate it when you get chocolate chip cookies that have a big section with no chips, and then a bunch of chips clumped together in one area? And wouldn't you rather have more chips per square inch of cookie than less?

Well, this same thinking goes along with powdered steels! Steels are alloys, and the particle making process allows you go get some awesome alloy combinations that you can't get with traditional methods (as mentioned above already). Ever wonder why a lot of CMP steels have high vanadium and high carbon contents? You can create some very interesting alloys with the process.

O.k. then, let's talk about the particles. Each particle is a perfect combination of all of the elements you want in the steel. Then when the particles are welded together, you have a perfectly homogeneous steel with even dispertion of the elements. Carbides in steel do a lot of the real aggressive cutting. All steel has carbides, but not all carbides are alike. Vanadium carbides are harder than chromium carbides. In fact, Vanadium carbides are some of the hardest carbides out there- so they stay sharp a long time and make good cutting teeth! In traditional steels, you can get clumps of carbides in some areas and other areas will be missing the vanadium carbides and such- not too cool. This is just like the chocolate chip cookie with that big area that is all dough and no chocolate chip! So the particle metallurgy process evens things out.

Knife makers who heat-n-beat their steels can even things out a lot in their steels- this is one of the things that is meant when you ehar that the steel is being "refined". And this is also one of the reasons that the Japanese Sword traditionally has all of the folds and such- the steel that they start with is not homogeneous at all! Heating, folding and hammering is like mixing up dough and kneeding it- makes for a nice consistent dough.
 
Very well said, Crayola. As an example of what Crayola is saying, you make a blade of CMP440V. The cutting edge is a combination of very fine and high concentration of carbides. Very aggresive cutting edge, considered the most aggresive possible of the knife edges, by some experts. I am a fan and maker using this steel. EXPENSIVE, but worth it. And hard for many folks to sharpen, but when sharp will hold it's edge for a long time. Lotsa carbides, is almost a satin finish necessity because hard to polish to mirror finish.
 
Burchtree :

[64+ RC knife]

Sounds nifty, but how do you sharpen it ...

With a sharpening stone. While 64RC is hard for a steel, it is very soft compared to modern honing abrasives.

..is it's breaking point (brittle) compromised by the high RC?

Yes, you can't get decent ductility or impact toughness at 64+ RC, these are knives strictly developed to craft an optimal low stress cutting geometry, crispest edge and highest edge retention.

You don't need CPM steels of course to get 64+ RC, you can easily get that with simple 1095. The CPM process mainly allows for a higher alloy composition to be used because of the reduction in carbide segregation (clumping).

-Cliff
 
"How do you sharpen it?"

"With a sharpening stone."

:D That sounds kinda like Dan Ackroyd asking Chevy Chase "what's a dickfur?"

Crayola -- Your cookie analogy was great, it explained it quite a bit. Sounds like a pretty great steel.
 
Thanks for the info,knife-fellows! If you have any more to tell about powder steel,please go on.Regarding the edge,i have heard that modern powder steels can be hardened to about Rockwell 64,without having brittler edges. Infact,i have read that they also should have stronger edges than ordinary steels,eaven when hardened to HCR 64!
Does any one know if that could be correct?

Manowar
 
CPM steels are tougher and more ductile thatn similar compositioned steels made in the traditional way because of the inherently finer grain and lower segregation of the CPM process, but this improvement isn't on the same scale as the general loss in ductility and impact toughness when going from 58/60 RC to 64/66 RC. So in short - no.

-Cliff
 
Well i thought so! I was hoping that would be true,having a knife which is hardened to HRC64,without being any brittler or easy to chip. But let´s see what the new and coming powder steels from Japan have to give...Is the "Super Gold Powder Steel" familiar to any of you? It´s about this steel i have heard such fanstastic features about!

Manowar
 
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