Power leather belt compounds?

rpttrsn

rpttrsn

Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Messages
1,347
Just received a leather belt from Lee Valley today for my 1" x 42" belt grinder running at about 1725 rpms. (Kalamozoo) Was wondering which compound do you find the best for this type of stroping. I have chromium oxide (unknown origin) which seems to work well on a hand strop. I have seen others use the white or mirror white from places like Pops Knifemaking Supply. I guess there is a difference in quality and performance. I am also waiting for my Liquid Diamond Spray in .50 and .25 micron. Before I put compound on the belt I would like to be sure which one to use. Help me start with the right stuff. :confused: Thanks
 
Stick with the diamond spray, nothing will beat it.
 
The white is finer then the green (chromium oxide, CrO). The black is coarser then the green. I use the black, green, and then white (from Bark River) on three different belts to avoid cross contamination. I get them here.

I haven't tried diamond spray yet. It is pretty expensive. I am not sure if it is really necessary for power stropping but would like to try it for hand stropping.
 
It seems that the white is finer than the green but no-one knows the micron size of the white compound.
 
Roger999 said:
It seems that the white is finer than the green but no-one knows the micron size of the white compound.
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White is usually 4-6 microns and green is 0.5-3 depending on where you get it. Green is finer than white.
 
knifenut1013 said:
Stick with the diamond spray, nothing will beat it.
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Got the Diamond spray yesterday ( .5 & .25 micron ). Made up two strops out of 1/2" X 2 3/8" wide walnut. Did a couple of knives that had been done with Chromium oxide. In a very short time the edge had improved with the diamond spray. Has anyone used the spray on the paper wheels by Razor Edge or their leather belt grinder?
P1010001-vi.jpg
 
ron, if you havent tried the spray yet you need to and let us all know how well it works and how long it lasts on the wheel. maybe do a test by starting with a clean wheel for the diamond spray and white rouge.
 
richard j said:
ron, if you havent tried the spray yet you need to and let us all know how well it works and how long it lasts on the wheel. maybe do a test by starting with a clean wheel for the diamond spray and white rouge.
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I have been thinking about what you said and I guess that I would need another wheel. That's not a big deal but since I don't sharpen knives daily I think it would take some time for me to get honest results. I have white compound now on the wheel and nothing on my leather belt sander. Was hoping someone who uses a belt grinder would chime in. I know Knifenut would use the diamond spray on anything if it moved or not. :D From my early trials with the spray I know why he praises it. (hope he doesn't mind me using his name in here)
The paper wheels will still be my main way to sharpen knives.
Thanks
Ron
 
Glad to hear you like it :)

I would think the the diamond spray would work much better on the wheels and last longer too. The diamonds won't break down like the rouge will and will keep a more consistent level of finish without slowing down. On the down side I think there would be more metal build-up on the wheel simply because of how much faster the metal is being removed.
 
rpttrsn said:
I have been thinking about what you said and I guess that I would need another wheel. That's not a big deal but since I don't sharpen knives daily I think it would take some time for me to get honest results. I have white compound now on the wheel and nothing on my leather belt sander. Was hoping someone who uses a belt grinder would chime in. I know Knifenut would use the diamond spray on anything if it moved or not. :D From my early trials with the spray I know why he praises it. (hope he doesn't mind me using his name in here)
The paper wheels will still be my main way to sharpen knives.
Thanks
Ron
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I use .5 micron CrO on my 1X30 belt sander with a leather belt, I put the CrO on the smooth side, it gives a great polish in no time at all.
 
knifenut1013 said:
White is usually 4-6 microns and green is 0.5-3 depending on where you get it. Green is finer than white.
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That makes it sound like the green gives a finer finish then the white. I am not prepared to debate grit size. As I am sure you are aware, grit size isn't the only thing that determines scratch pastern and finish results. Maybe the grit in the white compound is bigger then the green but the white is softer or flatter then the grit in the white compound?

Many factors affect the resulting finish other then grit size like the hardness of the polishing media, how it breaks down, the carrier it is in, material it is applied to, force used, material being sharpened or polished, the speed at which it passes, etc. CrO's sizes and results are pretty well documented but, where did you get the grit size on the white? I don't see where they list it. Also, there is usually a range of grit size in a specified grit and the range or average size affects how coarse of fine the results of buffing with at are. There are two different white compounds for different finishes anyway.

I don't know the grit size and don't really care for practical purposes except that it might be interesting. I am more concerned with and referring to the results one gives vs. the other. I think anyone trying to decide what sequence to use them in would be too.

The result is the white leaves the finer finish when compared with the black or green. I get mine from Bark River but since this thread is referring to Pop's. Here is what they say.

* 11B88 Black: fast cut
* 11B81 Green: medium cut and nice finish
* 525 White: light cut and nice finish
* HF1 White: mirror finish

I use the first three in the order they recommend and I think my results, power stropping on a belt grinder using a leather belt, are consistent with the labels. I use custom leather belts from SurgiSharp. I haven't used the white on a polishing wheel.

I haven't tried the Diamond spray yet but would like to.
 
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rpttrsn said:
Got the Diamond spray yesterday ( .5 & .25 micron ). Made up two strops out of 1/2" X 2 3/8" wide walnut. Did a couple of knives that had been done with Chromium oxide. In a very short time the edge had improved with the diamond spray. Has anyone used the spray on the paper wheels by Razor Edge or their leather belt grinder?
....
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rpttrsn,

Would you say the finish from the .25 diamond spray is more of a mirror finish then the white (or green) compounds gave or was the edge just sharper/better?

Gary
 
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All green compound I have used has always been finer than white. The stuff you can get from lowe's.... white is not the finest of the 6. When I think "green compound" I think chromium oxide 0.5 microns, no white rouge I have ever seen or used has ever worked better than any green compound I have used. Some white rouge is called white diamond rouge though it has no diamond's in it, it does however have a wee bit of ceramic in it. The only "grit" I have ever seen for it has been 1800 grit, finding true data though has been a little challenging. There may be some white compound that is finer but if the green compound it true chromium oxide the green will previal.
 
gary jp4 said:
rpttrsn,

Would you say the finish from the .25 diamond spray is more of a mirror finish then the white (or green) compounds gave or was the edge just sharper/better?

Gary
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I went over two knives that had been done before with CrO (green). Both seemed sharper and the steel showed up on the strop quickly. This could be and illusion as it would not show on the green compound as quickly.
The edges had a good polish before I started with the Diamond sprayed strop. Not a great difference but I need more time to evaluate. I will find one of my knives ( I hope ) that has not met a strop. I'll do one side with CrO and the other with the spray counting the strokes. I use a 8x loop to see the finish.
 
Thanks Rpttrsn,

I would have expected the diamond to cut faster for the same grit and maybe even for a smaller grit. I wondered if the finish was coarser or finer as far as scratch pattern or mirror appearance. The grit size can be deceiving as discussed above with the colored compounds.

Usually diamond cuts more aggressively and fast but leave deeper scratches or gouges then other abrasives of the same size. Especially diamonds on a steel plate like the DMT's. This is partly due to the shape of diamonds, that they break down slower, and partly because the diamonds on a plate or stone are random in placement depth from the surface of the stone (some stick up higher then others). If you are going for a polished edge many stop with diamonds after the rough stuff and go to water stones.

Many prefer a toothier finish on certain knifes and finishing with a diamond plate tends to give a more toothy finish then the same size grit from other media. The DMT extra fine or extra extra fine seems to be a good finish for a slicer.

Diamonds on a soft medium like a strop or buffing wheel could react quite differently as they are not held out as aggressively and I have no experience with that. So, I wondered how the diamond spray compared in finish as well as speed.

Gary
 
Diamond spray is the fastest cutting, best polishing, sharpest edge yielding stuff you can get. There is also no mess like other compounds and it applies much easier.

Picture375.jpg
 
Gary jp4,
I don't have allot of experence with the diamond spray as I just got the two grits the other day. Looking at knifenut1013 picture and the finish is great. I'm sure that the finish before stroping was quality, as he has been sharpening for some time now. I need to stop speaking for others. Sorry bout that. I want to try to get an edge like his in the near future. I have whittled hairs without using diamond spray but the final finish is not as good as knifenut's. I hope that will come in time. Picked out an old Buck Cadet and worked on the edge, with the diamond strop. Nothing? Had to go to my Japanese water stone by king. Combo stone 1200/6000. This buck has always given me trouble before. After using the King stone I was not happy with the edge as far as cutting goes. Hit it on the diamond strop about 20 times per side and it pop's hair with no trouble. It's never been this sharp. The edge also had a nice reflection without much work. I think the diamond spray has a place in my equipment if I want to go another step in the sharpening process. Do I want to use it on every tool? Strops, paper wheels, leather belts on grinders. I'm still expermenting and still have to work on my technique. This is a great place to get help from those who have been doing it. It makes getting to my near perfect edge go faster then without everyones help. Your questions also have me looking deeper into my results. There is no substitute for experence, and here is where i'll get it. Still need to get one of my new knives and do each side with a different compound. I need to prove it to myself what works best for me.
 
I have been told that there are about 12 different kinds of white buffing compound.

Confused yet?

I have used several whites, green, yellow, gold (probably a few more that I have forgotten - oh yes, black which is pretty coarse), both with hand strops and with belts and wheels. All but the black worked well and gave a great edge. The black is good for really rough work - like a finer stone.

Red is utterly useless. Psychological value only I think. It is designed to polish soft metals and the grit is not hard enough to do anything to steel.

I use Rick's White Lightnin' which is a cream compound with no wax in it, so there is less build up on strops and wheels. The grit is aluminium oxide. Grit size? Adequate. Who cares what grit size? It works!

It does need to dry for a few minutes before use, but one application like a thickish coat of paint on a denim strop (10 x 2) will handle at least 100 pocketknife blades and probably closer to 150 -200 before needing more.
 
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