Pre -Production Ka-Bars as some of you have asked for

nutoknives

nutoknives

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Mar 27, 2011
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Some have asked for some photo's of the Pre-Production knives so may as well start with the oldest I have as I do not have many but here goes

Ka-Bar looking for design of large Camp - Hunting knife for 1960's market yes sorry that's as old as I can do no 1900's early version's, so this the stag at middle late 1950's early Proto and as you can see with the first hardwood change of blade and a winner produced as the club knives reveal with a nice twin set only available to club Members as far as steel my favorite set of the club knives if this set doe's not hook you you should go shopping for shoes with the wife, can be fun at times, so here goes and anyone with pre-production examples please share Thanks for your time and yes more photo's to come

Enjoy



This one presented to Ka-Bar late fifty's for consideration,



Yes it is Sweet and Thanks to Joe now mine more to come




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Thanks nuto! Those are pretty sweet, I remember you saying a bit of how you came in to possession of these but I think it'd be interesting to add here how one would obtain such a collection. Very cool!
 
If someone sold you those knives as "prototypes" you got taken. The whole "prototype" business was started by Jim Parker and did not really exist with large companies before the 1980s. I can't read the writing on the large German style bowie knife but it certainly never had anything to do with KA-BAR. Union Cut Co, pre-Parker Case, and Remington never made "prototype" knives or "pre-production" knives, they had drawings for the models and went straight to general production from the drawings. This may start a firestorm but it is true.
 
No problem Gunsil, no firestorm, and way it came about was quit interesting, about 4 years ago my cousin was very ill and wanted to finish his Ka-Bar yearly knife collection but he had not sent in his check fast enough as last knife of club was limited to 110, only first club members got the knife he had tried for years to acquire but had no luck, long story shortened, forward a couple of months and he had passed as I was in contact with gentleman that had been at Ka-Bar for over 38 years, hearing my story as he was about to retire anyway he was so kind to sell me his so I could finish my cousins collection, as time went on he contacted me about the many Pre-production knives that he had acquired, as if not put into production they had no use for so he took home with companies knowledge, as he was cleaning out his collection he let me know what he had and asked if I would be interested and as time went by I did purchase a few, about a month after my last purchase he was back in contact with me and asked if I would like to meet and possibly buy alot of Ka-Bar knives from early 1900-1970's as they where the 2nds and or 3rds that where already in the Companies Collection very nice and some amazing long story short I was not able to come up with the amount that they were asking but made a strong offer in hind site should of purchased but kids bills,life you get the picture, the leather handle knives I have were from the late fifties and sixties, prior to production, some others were the samples they let customers handle at the knife shows also prior to production. When I first started on bladeforums was in touch with Tooog and he had heard about me from Joe so also a nice contact,Wish I had some of his pre-production sample's So are the knives I have counterfeit I doubt it, did I pay alot for them no as Joe was retiring and thought and liked the idea to try to keep together, Joe's job at Ka-Bar as he described to me he was the one who maintained the Companies knife collection, and assorted duties as far as I know all are what he say's they are as I have no reason to doubt, especially at the cost I paid. Last one I acquired from him was Ethan's First for the Company the bk14, it is a blank with no marks on tang, as far as the Bowie with stag you are correct it was not a preproduction by Ka-Bar but a knife supplied to Ka-Bar as they where looking for a big blade bowie of which came the 1210 so no, Bowie was not done by Ka-Bar but one given by other Manufacturer for consideration late 1950's as Joe remembers. Hey as the name says NUTOKNIVES so any and all info anyone has is greatly appreciated as I am new to knives and admit I am no expert, and love learning new things just wanted to share some of the items I acquired over the years hope you enjoy

Ethan's BK





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Thanks NCslice and TBL yeh them blades are sexy Thanks for the kind words

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Great collection there nuto. Missed this the first time around. Those large bowies are awesome! I like the backstory behind them, sounds like the gentlemen had quite the collection. Nice piece of history. Thanks for sharing!
 
My Pleasure Aikiguy,
And your welcome just to be clear the stag bowie by itself is the only 1 acquired from Joe(Ka-Bar Employee) in the photo's the rest I found in various location's and will have some more pics shortly will get photo's up as soon as I can but helping out some friends this week as they lost there dad over the weekend in fact his Daughter just left after giving the wife and I a great day, been a long time since a 3 year old running around.
 
I still don't know why these are being called "pre-production" knives. KA-BAR first made the "J Bowie" knives in the mid 1950s and they will not have a model number stamped on them. The ones pictured here are from the re-introduction in 1988 when some were made for the KA-BAR Collector's Club and others for sale to the general public. The original 1950s version only came with stag scales, all others are 1988 or newer. Hence how could they be called "pre-production knives when the original model by KA-BAR was made some thirty years earlier. The "Original Bowie Knife" pictured has absolutely nothing to do with KA-BAR and was never presented to them, all their designing back then was done in-house and they did not need to look at others' knives. I do know Paul T and Joe H as well and have traded KA-BAR literature with both of them. These KA-BAR "J Bowie" knives pictured here are cool knives but they aren't pre-anything since the first ones were made much earlier.

Nuto, I have around three hundred or so early 1923-1940 (there were no KA-BAR marked knives before 1923) hunting knives, and many for sale. Probably have a couple of the 50's "J Bowie" knives available too. You may need to upgrade to a Gold membership to send me a PM and if I had your contact info I could send you pics of what I have available. I don't know where you live, but I might have a couple tables at the big show in TN next month. I am in NY state and you are welcome to come look at them if you are nearby. Best, Gun
 
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Hey Gun and Thanks for the invite, also in New York, On the Island

The Knife up in Picture as far as the Stag Handle was an example prior to final design in the 1950's as best Joe (Former Employee of Ka-Bar) could remember, the other's up above are from the 70's wood handle and the Club Knives, Yes production and design in house but all manufacturer's borrowed from 1 another wanted or not. The Stag Handle Bowie from the 1950's and a Stag Handle Set from the 1930's are production models, which you are talking about. I will share in the post some of the Ka-Bar Knives Joe acquired over the years as he was the man that did the early leg work at the factory before Toog was born, and hope all enjoy, the little black Blade a pre-production Becker, I have a few I will be showing but that Box is away at the moment, Hope to Hear from you soon Gun and will up my Membership soon as I have been busy acquiring some new materials, will update membership Tomorrow Hope you enjoy the Post and keep sharing that wealth of knowledge I for 1 Appreciate





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Got me searching Here Goes

Pre-Production Stockman's, in Ram's Horn and Chestnut



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Knives in Ram's horn and Old American Chestnut only 1 not Pre-Production

Rest of knives done prior to Shot Show so Dealers could Fondle never went through Heat Treat so Blades will roll (not a problem they will not have to cut a thing got a few other's I could use) more to come and Thanks for Looking


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Nuto, I just looked in my old KA-BAR Collector's Club newsletters and the first three J Bowie knives you show are definitely from 1988 and are standard production knives. The newsletters state they were made on left over tooling from the 1970s version. The one you show in the photo with the knife/axe combo is a standard production knife from the 1950s. I would like to see the stamps on the knife/axe combo. The sheath appears to be a 1930s sheath, but a stag handle was not available until 1946 or 1947. The 1930s knife/axe combos were only made with wood or celluloid handles, the ricasso stamps will be interesting to see. I live near Nyack, by the Tappan Zee bridge, the island isn't far away unless you are out on the east end.
Best, Gun
 
Evening Gun,

As you stated the Bowies in top are from the 1970's wood handle and yes 2 others are the club knives that had to be ordered together 1 Sambar Stag and the other Dyed Bovine both from the 1980's, and the Stag Bowie from the late 1950's as you stated only Stag on the first production Model's will get some shots of the combo during the week, The Stamp on the knife blade is KA-BAR with USA under KA-BAR placing between 1930-1940, the stamp on the hatchet Reads KA-BAR with US REG PAT OFF putting between 1927-1945, again this set is not new in Box, how it came about with an older sheath maybe celuloide and who ever had upgraded to Stag not sure Thanks again for your input and knowledge as it helps all us newbie's learn. Yes I am out on the east end of the Island but pass your way often as Mom is Upstate NY around the Saratoga Area Have a Great Night and talk soon

Pics of the Collector's Bowie's and the 1970's wood Handle



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I don't know where you are getting your stamp dates from, but the KA-BAR over USA was not used until after WW2. If you are using the list of tang stamps put out by the collector's club please note that it has a disclaimer saying that they are not sure if some of the dates may not be correct and for sure a lot of them aren't. The sheath and hatchet are pre-WW2 and the knife and handle are a match for post war production. Sadly the factory has a pitifully small amount of original brochures and price lists so they guess a lot. Their "historian" knows little about anything they made before Cole National took over in the late 1960s. You did not have to buy the top two bowies as a set, they are advertised as the stag model being available separately in the club newsletters. Again, if the info you have on them came from Joe it is incorrect. Ditto if it came from Tooj. The wood handle is also a late 1980s knife, were it a 1970s knife it would have Kabar in lower case italics for a blade stamp. You sure have an impressive pile of 1980s and newer knives in this photo!! Did you know that many weren't even made by KA-BAR in Olean, many were made on contract by Queen for KA-BAR so they aren't considered "real" KA-BARs by some collectors.

Regards, Gun
 
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Morning Gun,

The J Bowies from 1988 as stated in news letter says available as single items but to the right side it states the 8001/DL Presentation model only available as a set as production believed to be less than 300 due to size of handle material and availability. Stag Handle 8001/ST $55.00, Presentation J Bowie 8001/DL $67.50, as far as final production total of 723 of the Stag and 389 of the Green Bone. As far as the tang stamp info I used the one on Ka-Bars website, if incorrect please post any and all information you can as I for 1 love learning and always looking for correct information. As far as the club knives none actually done by Ka-Bar all under contract to Queen as you stated and Case, Ka-Bar just in charge of quantity and quality as that also confirmed by Toog when still at Ka-Bar, as told to me by him when I started this Quest. As a side note the early Stag Handle Bowie re-introduced in 1945-1958, the Stamina Wood Handle Bowie done in late 1960's through 1982 as last production run.
Once again Thank you for chiming in, as all and any info always appreciated and love those early Stag Knives and those Pearl Handle example's you have Thanks for sharing and hope to see a lot more.

The Club Newsletter 1988



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Hey Gun,

The Tang Stamps for the old Knife/Hatchet set any and all info appreciated




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Hey congrats on your Gold membership!! I'll get in touch when the holiday stuff is over.-------Gunsil
 
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