Recommendation? Prepping for first knife, order of operations?

G

googlebutt

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Jun 4, 2018
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I'm getting ready to make my first knife, and I've done a ton of research. In order to keep all this information whizzing around in my head straight, I've created a list. Want to run it by the experts to see if I've missed anything, or if some things can be simplified/improved.

Knife: 8" drop point hunter - 3.4" blade

Tool list:
Code: 
Drill press w/ vice and machinist drill bits
Gough jig
Hacksaw
Bench vice
Wood jig saw
12" double cut bastard flat
12" double cut fine flat
10" double cut course half round
1/4" chainsaw file
1/8" chainsaw file
Rhynowet sandpaper
Knifemakers edge scribe, digital calipers, machinist square, respirator w/ p100 filters, assorted hand tools etc

Order of operations:
Code: 
Prep 1080 1.25 x .125 stock?

1. Coat in Dykem
2. Transfer drop point hunter pattern (full flat grind) - scribe or glue cutout
3. Center punch pin/lanyard/sharpening choil locations
4. Drill pin/lanyard/sharpening choil holes
5. Hacksaw profile - make vertical relief cuts for finger contour
6. Finish profile using files
7. Scribe edge - .05 thick
8. Chainsaw file plunge at sharpening choil, leave a little meat at edge
9. Secure blank in Gough jig - Pay attention angle of the blank to ensure that the angle doesn’t change from belly to tip. Line up center of the blade with the pivot point.
10. Install stop bolt with steel collar to protect plunge line
11. Outline blank on jig in case the blank shifts
12. File to edge using an angle that grinds ~1cm high max, remember to clean file often to avoid deep scratches - Bahco 12” double cut bastard
14. Flip and repeat - outline other side of blade on jig
15. Change file angle to start at the top of the previous grind, take to edge, flip, repeat
16. Draw file blade and ricasso to ensure flatness - 12” single cut file?
17. Sand blade/ricasso/profile to 400 (Rhynowet) - Sand using 45 degree angle to clearly identify previous grit scratches
18. Send to Trugrit for HT and tempering
19. Wet sand blade and ricasso starting at 400 (Rhynowet) - Shooting for a satin finish
20. Switch to EDM stones - try jumping straight to 800 grit per Aaron Gough
21. Tape off blade
22. Mark out handle (Bocote) on scales
23. Cut out scales using hacksaw - maybe better with a jig saw?
24. Cut pins/lanyard tube to length
25. Drill first pin hole, insert pin as locator pin
26. Drill second hole, insert pin
27. Drill lanyard hole
28. Put both scales together held with pins, rough shape using hand tools
29. Epoxy scales to tang, insert pins and lanyard
30. Sand/contour handle to finish
31. Tung oil bocote handle?
32. Secondary bevel using a sharpening tool - undecided
33. Cut everything in sight??

My big remaining questions are:

1. What prep do I need to do to the raw 1080 stock, if any?
2. And how many sheets of sandpaper do I need (120/220/400) complete this knife? Rhynowet is very expensive!
 
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For draw filing I prefer a 3~4" three square single cut file. Pull towards yourself with the handle to the left.
If you're on a budget then go for 5 sheets op sandpaper per gritsize. Free paint stirring sticks make nice hand sand blocks/sticks. (radius the sides with files)
Maybe start off with a coarse emd stone before sandpaper
 
I would suggest dropping back one grit when doing the post HT sanding. Start at 220 then go to 400. You need to remove surface decarb and then go to the 400 for the satin finish.

I find it much smarter to file the choil after the blade bevel filing and sanding is done. Once you make it, it is stuck there no matter what. Things happen to plunge lines and they can end up slightly moved from where you planned.

Drill the holes in the tang larger than the pin/tube sizes you will use. 25% to 50% oversize is good. You will discover you need a little wiggle room when installing the handle. At the minimum, use a bit 1/16" larger than the pin stock.

The steel should be ready to go when you get it. Check for flatness and straighten if needed.
you are going to use sandpaper …. it is a fact of life. I think Hengelo is about right that you will use 4 or 5 sheets of each grit on your first knife. Later on you will use less. When using the paper, make a bowl of clean water with a squirt of dish soap in it. It makes the paper sand better and last longer.

IMPORTANT - At every change of grit (100 to 220, 220 to 400, 400 to stones, etc.) Wash the blade off, wipe down the sanding board and area, wash your hands, dust off your pants legs and shirt sleeves, dump and rinse the bowl and fill with new water. Transferring a loose piece of coarser grit to the next stage in sanding can make a priest curse.
 
Thank you both for the tips. I received a response from Trugrit regarding their turn around time, it's currently 7-21 days, so now I'm considering trying it myself. I've seen that some people use those propane weeding torches to HT, which I have on hand. Would that be sufficient to HT 1080?
 
I had a great experience with J heat treat and got my blades back in a few days. I had a terrible experience with trugrit heat treat.

I also built a baby forge that is discussed in a thread called virtual BBQ or something like that. Combine with and Atlas burner it is actually too hot. It seems suitable for simple steels and was relatively inexpensive
 
Just a follow-up. I've got my work bench set up, all hand tools on my list and I'm about ready to get started. I've decided to build a two brick forge using an atlas 30k btu burner. I'm wondering if it's a good idea to sacrifice a couple of 2-3" pieces of my 1080 stock to practice the heat treating process, before trying with my blade? I figure I'd go through all the steps short of tempering, put the small test pieces in a vice and give them a whack. Thoughts?
 
I would HIGHLY recommend drilling your pin holes after you finish shaping the profile. I have seen way to many times where a design was transferred to steel and thy drilled the pin holes. Then thy profiled the blade to realise thy want to reshape the handle and now the pin holes are not center. Misaligned pin holes stick out like the proverbial sore thumb.

I’m really hoping to be back to heat treating blades for you guys soon. I’m just so swamped with orders and trying to get ready for blade west that I had to cut that part out for now. I have had to turn away knife orders which never feals good but usaly means I got lots of work which feals good. So if everything goes smoothly we will be back up with heat treating soon. I have had a few customers sneak knives in for heat treating. But thy have been very patient with me and the long delays.
 
It has begun! Cut out mostly profiled my first knife shaped object this afternoon, still need to clean up the underside of the handle a bit.

fcYOnd7.jpg


bNVuP9b.jpg


Also, I ordered some stabilized koa scales from Pete's Koa Customs, and one side is very glossy. Is this a coating, or has one side simply been polished? Curious how I should finish the scales as they're pretty close to my final thickness (they're 3/16, shooting for around 1/8). https://www.peteskoacustoms.com/store/p465/KG-A39___5A_CHOCOLATE_KOA_SCALES.html
 
The shiny stuff is a spray coat of varnish/lacquer to show the curl. It gets sanded off in finishing.
 
googlebutt said:
It has begun! Cut out mostly profiled my first knife shaped object this afternoon, still need to clean up the underside of the handle a bit.

fcYOnd7.jpg


bNVuP9b.jpg


Also, I ordered some stabilized koa scales from Pete's Koa Customs, and one side is very glossy. Is this a coating, or has one side simply been polished? Curious how I should finish the scales as they're pretty close to my final thickness (they're 3/16, shooting for around 1/8). https://www.peteskoacustoms.com/store/p465/KG-A39___5A_CHOCOLATE_KOA_SCALES.html
Click to expand...

Well , your first knife shaped object looks very good :thumbsup:
PS . And don't forget to drill holes for pin before HT or you will open another thread........how to drill hole in hardened steel ;)
 
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Thank you both, once again!

Little progress update, filed in my plunges, which turned out fairly even and by no means perfect. Also have my bevels about half done, planning on a FFG.

I've got my k26 bricks and Atlas burner on order, and I'm starting to research sharpening solutions. Do you guys have any suggestions in that department? I understand that the affordable guided sharpening systems don't maintain a constant geometry from plunge to tip on knives like this, but I'm not sure if that's a big enough concern on my first knife to negate the ease of use. I'd like to learn freehand sharpening for sure, but if I get all the way to the point at which I'm adding a secondary bevel, I don't want to screw it up!

ootR5bN.jpg

(Waiting on my step bits to come in to chamfer and take out some weight from the tang)
7QCZ5fS.jpg
 
Probably too late now, but step drill bits are pretty much a joke for drilling out knife steel.
They are made to drill plastic, aluminum, thin sheet metal, etc.
They may not last more than one knife.

Spend the money and get two or three each of quality drill bits in 1/8, 3/16/1/4,3/8,1/2 and you will be far better off.

Once I learned how to properly drill with carbide, I get hundreds of holes per bit.
 
googlebutt said:
I've decided to build a two brick forge using an atlas 30k btu burner.
Click to expand...

I made something very similar with the same Atlas burner. The issue is that there is no temperature control with this set up. The Atlas is hot or too hot for such a small forge. It is tough to turn it down low before it starts to sputter. There is no problem at all in getting the steel hot enough to non magnetic, but for more complex steels besides 1084 that require some soak at a consistent temperature, it is tough with this set up.

I did read an old thread of someone with the same setup. He did two things to achieve some level of temperature control. He uses an inner stainless steel pipe that shields the blade from direct flame. And once it is up to soak temperature, he changes to a smaller torch, like the ones from Lowes. I have the thermo couple from Atlas too.

I saw a stainless steel exhaust pipe at Pep Boys I am going to try.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Probably too late now, but step drill bits are pretty much a joke for drilling out knife steel.
They are made to drill plastic, aluminum, thin sheet metal, etc.
They may not last more than one knife.

Spend the money and get two or three each of quality drill bits in 1/8, 3/16/1/4,3/8,1/2 and you will be far better off.

Once I learned how to properly drill with carbide, I get hundreds of holes per bit.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip, I'll pick up some larger diameter bits for my drill press. I had already ordered a cheap set of cobalt step bits, so I'll probably just try them out on this knife and then stash them away from light duty.

ashwinearl said:
I made something very similar with the same Atlas burner. The issue is that there is no temperature control with this set up. The Atlas is hot or too hot for such a small forge. It is tough to turn it down low before it starts to sputter. There is no problem at all in getting the steel hot enough to non magnetic, but for more complex steels besides 1084 that require some soak at a consistent temperature, it is tough with this set up.

I did read an old thread of someone with the same setup. He did two things to achieve some level of temperature control. He uses an inner stainless steel pipe that shields the blade from direct flame. And once it is up to soak temperature, he changes to a smaller torch, like the ones from Lowes. I have the thermo couple from Atlas too.

I saw a stainless steel exhaust pipe at Pep Boys I am going to try.
Click to expand...

Interesting, this is the first I've heard of the Atlas in a 2 brick forge being too hot for a 2 brick forge. How big is your chamber, do you have any pictures? I only have 1080 at the moment, but I was concerned about over heating my blade. Perhaps it would be safer to order the MT245C if it's more forgiving.
 
Knife is looking great. Good work! If you have the space outdoors (or in a controlled cast iron stove type setting) you can always do a coal fired forge using a pipe with drilled holes and some sort of blower to force air through it and bring the temperature up. While it is not the most precise method, it is functional and inexpensive for simple steels. Tempering can be done simply in any type of oven (though using the one in your kitchen may draw complaints. For something this size a simple toaster oven that you can get inexpensively will work. Do you already have a quenchant for your heat treating?
 
gatorforge said:
Knife is looking great. Good work! If you have the space outdoors (or in a controlled cast iron stove type setting) you can always do a coal fired forge using a pipe with drilled holes and some sort of blower to force air through it and bring the temperature up. While it is not the most precise method, it is functional and inexpensive for simple steels. Tempering can be done simply in any type of oven (though using the one in your kitchen may draw complaints. For something this size a simple toaster oven that you can get inexpensively will work. Do you already have a quenchant for your heat treating?
Click to expand...

Thank you sir! I actually already have all the of components necessary to build a two brick forge, including the 30k btu atlas burner. I was planning on using canola oil as my quenchant, and a 5.56 steel ammo can for my container (I think that should be big enough for a 4" blade?). I'll probably end up just buying the cheapest toastor oven on Amazon just to keep the family happy.
 
Nice work googlebutt. I'm busy with a very similar profile, also on a filing jig. I would second the suggestion for getting decent drill bits, the cobalt ones work for me. I may have gone a little drill crazy on mine, it's probably better to drill fewer holes but larger ones for the epoxy to penetrate:

3XpQOQA.jpg


As for the final sharpening I think a guided system would be fine. I use the Edge Pro with the standard stones and whilst it's not the fastest way it produces a good result and the process is anxiety free.
 
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Good tip, thanks! Is there a method for reducing the guesswork in regards to how much material should be removed from the tang, in order to balance the blade?

Cool, I'll continue researching the cheaper guided systems.

I ended up just going for it and ordering the Atlas mini forge, by the way.
 
I don't think the holes remove much weight unless you really skeletonise the tang with a bunch of big holes down the center line. The main purpose of the holes is so that the epoxy is connecting scale to scale and not just scale to tang.

It's also a good idea to drill a bunch of shallow holes in the scales down the center so that the epoxy has more to grip onto and doesn't all get squeezed out during clamp up. Well that's how I do it.

Congrats on getting the Atlas mini forge!
 
That totally makes sense, I get it now.

I've finished filing the bevels and now I'm onto draw filing everything flat. I left some extra meat on the edge, but I'm curious how this I should make it considering I'm hand filing?
 
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