Presention grade vs field grade

Bobby Branton

Bobby Branton

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This has been on my mind for a while. I am curious, what do you think when you see a maker who is known for presentation grade knives, for whatever reason turn around and start making field grade or plain jane tactical knives? Do you see them as wasting their talent? or, do you see them as maybe trying to offer knives to a broader audience at a more affordable price? Would you rather see them work on their nicer pieces or do you think they cheapen their reputation by doing real basic knives when you know they can build much better knives? Do you like them to build a little of both?
Looking forward to hearing what you have to say.
BB

Edited to say, When I say presentation knives, I mean knives that are made from premium handle materials and have a higher level of finish on the blade. I don't know of anyone who makes a presentation grade knife that could not be used.
 
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First: I play with knives in the Sub $500 category.

A knife is a tool and is meant to be used as such. I can't readily imagine a maker (although I'm sure they exist) that make only make
knives as art pieces... Why Go through the hassle of getting your MS rating? Why even bother learning how to heat treat or even learn how to sharpen?

If a maker isn't willing or isn't able to make a good hard use knife then they are no maker that I would ever buy from regardless of price or name.
 
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I like to see a bit of both.

I don't see a field grade/inexpensive knife by a top notch maker as wasting/cheapening their talent. Some of the plain Jane stuff some of these guys are making knocks my eyeballs out just as much as the fancy engraved damascus pieces. There's alot of beauty in simplicity. from what I've seen, people always have a very positive reaction to such knives. I've seen Jason Knight, Burt Foster, and a few others put out some hard use stuff, and I doubt anyone is going to change their mind about how talented and amazing they are from seeing those pieces. Every instance I've seen of this has been very positive actually.

As far as a fancy knife being a "better" knife....well....the field grade model has more of a chance to show its stuff, and is more likely to be made of more rugged materials. I guess you could argue that the field grade piece is the better knife.
 
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I don't personally feel that making working knives cheapens any maker's body of work. Unless they suck. Poor quality cheapens anything.

I think it's a real fine line, and an intriguing question in general:thumbup:. Good one.
 
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Lorien said:
I don't feel that making working knives cheapens any maker's body of work. Unless they suck. Poor quality cheapens anything.

I think it's a real fine line, and an intriguing question in general:thumbup:. Good one.
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I don't think there is a fine line. I would think it's quite the opposite. A working knife must have more thought into it's design. A working finished Brut-de-forge Knight, Lamy, Lynch, Foster, Mace......... Feel WAY better in my hand than does an exquisitely finished knife! They feel strong purpose built machines. They have a proper thickness, grind, balance etc... While a Beautifully finished knife doesn't have a purpose other than looking good if you think about it... No one is going to be using that Loveless bigbear (?) or Fisk bowie. I'm sure they perform but no one will ever be testing it...
 
I think great makers are doing a good thing by making feild grade knives. Knives are originally meant to be used. A maker should be happy to know his knives are out there getting used and being relied on. I'd think that is just as important as making nice presentation knives. Not everyone can afford ivory and damascus and it helps put knives into everyones hands.
 
I would bet it's probably a decision made with an eye towards business and smart marketing. Of course we'd all like to see and hear of Custom Knives actually being used, but the user market generally buys only once. For a maker who is making a living or a necessary income, do the math.

The benefit is just as you suggest, Bobby: Offering lesser cost knives to a broader base. What does that do? It either scratches that collection itch, or fills that useful need, OR it is a stepping stone into the maker's presentation grade.

Or all of the above. :D

And the flip side of this is the whole dress tactical market. Start out affordable and then get into serious money. Lots of players. :thumbup:

Good topic.

Coop
 
Well for me, if I get a knife (a pure user) from a premier maker and I take it out and just beat the hell out if it and it stands up and takes it, then I just naturally assume that his high end more artsy stuff will do the same thing if called upon. Therefore he has enhanced his image with me because he can MAKE A KNIFE regardless of the end use. Fisk, Dean, White, Wheeler, Bump just to name a VERY few of the ones that can pull it off. There are many more.

Paul
 
petah said:
I don't think there is a fine line. I would think it's quite the opposite. A working knife must have more thought into it's design. A working finished Brut-de-forge Knight, Lamy, Lynch, Foster, Mace......... Feel WAY better in my hand than does an exquisitely finished knife! They feel strong purpose built machines. They have a proper thickness, grind, balance etc... While a Beautifully finished knife doesn't have a purpose other than looking good if you think about it... No one is going to be using that Loveless bigbear (?) or Fisk bowie. I'm sure they perform but no one will ever be testing it...
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There's quite a few Fisk Bowies in use in the field, especially the "Battle" field.

http://www.fisk-knives.com/Field Grade Pieces.htm

Here's a dressed up version of Jerry's popular "military model" (only one like it), I call it the "officer's military model". Same basic "hard use field grade design with mammoth ivory, engraving and damascus rather than 1084 and micarta.

Handcock-FiskPhotos002.jpg
 
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Bobby Branton said:
Edited to say, When I say presentation knives, I mean knives that are made from premium handle materials and have a higher level of finish on the blade. I don't know of anyone who makes a presentation grade knife that could not be used.
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this edit is what changed the tenor of my original post.

Art knives are something else.

One can directly compare two identical models, one worth $2500 and one worth $500, with the only difference being the materials used and find similarities in performance I'd guess.

But I can only speculate, as I am limited to using field grade knives. Fortunately, I am able to because people who are known for making presentation pieces, like Jason Knight, Burt Foster, Nick Wheeler etc. actually make working knives too.

Now, say there comes a time when I'm full of dollars and say I want a presentation Sooke Mountain Chopper, well I already know that it performs so I don't have to actually use it to find out. I can tell you now, that if I want a presentation grade knife, Jason Knight will be one of the first that I turn to. Why? Because he makes a damn good knife, and I know that from experience.

Field grade opens the door to presentation grade. I feel that they complement one another, and it's a savvy maker who sees the benefit in putting a performance oriented knife in the hands of folks like me who love custom knives and who use them, and who may want a fancier knife but can't afford one. Because one day I will be able to afford it.
Hopefully.:)
 
The Big Bear is a Using Knife. And a very nasty one at that. Don't let Bob hear you say his knives were Artsy Tartsie. He may be gone, but he can still hear ya!

The Big Bear was designed to take out a combatant "RIGHT NOW". The Sub-Hilt is there to make sure you hang on to it when the wet goo is all around.

I guess it was kinda the first Goo-be-Gone;)

The collectors and dealers made it a art knife. Not Bob!

Mike
 
Bob is not a subject I feel at all comfortable talking about. But when a maker asks over $600-700 let alone 4-5 grand or more for a 'using knife' the people who would actually use a knife for what it's built for would/could never buy it. Ever. Never.

How many times have we seen some poor Soldier coming to this forum for knife advice with a budget of maximum 300 or so bucks? These Brave people are the ones that will be using these blades for their intended use. I'm pretty sure most can't afford a bigbear or bagwell on their salary. This is a complicated question the more I think about it...

Makers make knives to put food on the table.
Collectors collect for fun and/or profit
Some collectors buy to USE. AKA Users

How can a maker say they make a using knife but price it toward a collector?
 
I was just thinking along these lines the other day. I thought it would be a great idea if it was possible.

I thought it would be a reat idea for a challenge for knifemaker to make a sub $200 simple hunter. Nothing fancy just a good user.

I kn0w there are already alot if makers in the forums that do this everday. But would the traditional higher end presentation ,makers be able to do so.

The only rule would be it would have to be something that the maker would be willing to truely sell at that price point, not just a one time deal
 
I think great makers are doing a good thing by making feild grade knives. Knives are originally meant to be used. A maker should be happy to know his knives are out there getting used and being relied on. I'd think that is just as important as making nice presentation knives. Not everyone can afford ivory and damascus and it helps put knives into everyones hands.
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Well said. +1
 
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