Price of custom traditionals?

E

EMcDannell

Joined
Nov 7, 2010
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354
I noticed in the makers for sale forum that the custom traditionalist seem to have a much higher price than the more modern looking custom folders with the "higher end steels". I'm just wondering why this is? Is there alot of work that goes into the fit and finish of these knives?

Just to clearify I'm not knocking these knives I'm just wondering why the price is Where it is. Maybe I'm just only seeing the expensive ones. Haha.

Thanks

Eric
 
I am not a knife-maker, but from hanging around this forum for some years I have come to appreciate that slipjoint knifemakers put an incredible amount of time into their work.
Many of them dye and jig their own bone, and that assembly has to be just right for everything to come together properly. Even with some steep prices I would think that if they were paid
by the hour for such knives they wouldn't be making a killing.
 
Having disassembled and reassembled a slipjoint (badly, I might add :D) I have a great respect for custom knifemakers.
I think there's just more of an art to making a slipjoint than most other folders.
I had all the pieces ready made and I still found it pretty difficult.
There's just more to go wrong with a slipjoint, all the camming surfaces, making sure the blades are straight and maybe crinked properly.
I think it's less of an engineering problem than an artistic one, a 'black art' if you will.
 
The major manufacturing cost in any knife is not materials, it is labor. There are more parts to a traditional, so there is more labor involved as everything has to be precision ground in order to get proper fit. That takes more time. So it costs more.
 
I am very new to custom made traditional knives so all I can really add to this topic is my humble opinion.

I have never taken a factory tour but I would think that mass producers, like Case and Buck for example, can make one knife in a mere fraction of the time it takes one man to make one knife in his workshop. Much more time involved for a handmade custom.

The quality that you usually get with a custom knife is enough to justify the cost but there is another concept involved that I think makes them priceless.

As long as the maker is willing to take on the challenge, you can have a knife made to your own specifications. Handle material, swedges, blade steel, blade pull, length, width, half stops or no half stops, blade type, the list goes on and on. You get a knife made the way you want it to be made.

Did I mention priceless?
 
Custom Traditionals run from $300 to $3000. Custom Tacticals run about the same.
roland
 
I have had this discussion with my mates quite a few times..lets say you are paying $1000 for a real nice knife...some people say whew!!...bugger that, but I am sure if we sat down, worked out the hours...lets say a average of $50 an hour...I would not want anything less if I was to contract out my work...1000 split by the hourly charge = 20 hours, to me 20 hours doesnt go very far-especially as Corey has stated the jigging is all hand done, dyeing of the scales, cutting out, machining, fitting of springs, blades bolsters, sharpening...whew...I can honestly say I would not like to be an up and coming knife maker-because it would be a long long time when you actually started to bank profits.
 
Talent and time, both have values. As Duncan said, it takes awhile for a maker to reach a point, that they can even come close to making a good hourly wage...

A good friend who was a very accomplished custom rifle builder, finally reached a point in his career, that he could charge into the 5 figures, and easily get it. Unfortunately, he passed away while in the prime of his career.

I think for most, its a labor of love, not just a way to make money.
 
I don't know if custom traditionals are really that much more expensive or you may just be seeing more "modern" folders being made vs traditionals. I have a custom slip-joint that I bought 2 yrs ago for $115 directly from the maker (I believe they're going for $145-165 now). I'd be hard pressed to find a modern custom folder at that price. I might also add that the knife is flush at all 3 positions (1/2 stop, closed, & open) & has Paul Bos HTed A-2 steel.

I'm certainly not a knife maker, but there does appear to be more processes to making a slip-joint vs a modern folder. Also, I would think that G10 scales are probably less expensive (In labor & cost) than jigged bone, stag, wood, etc.
 
I can't find it now, but I recently read a knifemaking tutorial written by a custom knifemaker.
I remember thinking 'wow, that's a lot of work!' and wasn't surprised to read at the end of the article that it took the guy around 40 hours to make the knife.
That's an average working week. Once you think about it in those terms, it doesn't seem so expensive.
After reading the article, it just seems so much more labor intensive to make a slipjoint than, say, a linerlock.
 
Theres a ton of ways to make modern traditionals, lets say its a single blade folder with pretty much
all the bells and whistles. A customer asks how long to make a $350 knife? I say 8, 10, or 12 hours
(this can vary considerably) and my cost to make the knife is 40-50 dollars This is usually my time
spent after I have heat treated the blade and spring. So lets add 2-2 hour draws after the quench
for both the blade and the spring. By bells and whistles I mean a clean good working folder- no fancy
handle materials or other exotics.
We now take pics,. photoshop them and post the knife for sale. Paypal will run 3 1/2 percent, shipping
with insurance and delivery conf. will cost $12. I'll try to keep the sarcasm low on how rich I'm getting.
My whole life I've been in some sort of denial and lying to myself about one addiction or other- why stop
now?. I'm sure this could easily be said about collecting as well as making knives. Did I forget anything?
Ken.
 
The $50 per hour number was mentioned above (Post #8). I suspect very few custom knife makers actually average half that on an hourly basis if you consider all their time. It is a labor of love as well as an expression of the human individualist spirit. It is about freedom and being able to choose in what direction your life takes. I am self employed and I only make money when somebody pays for my service. The price for that service will vary based on economic conditions (local, regional, and personal) and certainly based on my reputation which I try very hard to maintain at a pretty high level. The knifemaker with a good reputation will be able to charge more consistantly.

There is definitely skill involved in making folders. The custom market seems to be tilting a bit toward folders from fixed blades. I believe most fixed blades are easier to make than folders. I believe that slip joints may well be the most difficult to make outside a factory setting. Hence they seem to be more costly relative to the size of the knife. I feel sure that the custom makers get better as their experience increases regardless of whether it be a slip joint or fixed blade. That is the financial attraction of being able to get what amounts to an higher hourly rate for a craftsman versus the guy who works in the average factory.

I have not been able to make the leap to buy a custom folder as of yet, but I am getting close to that decision point. I would much rather buy a custom folder than say a Sebenza.
 
The only reason I don't pay a higher price for customs anymore is because I appreciate them way to much. I have my small collection of customs and wouldn't sell them for anything. Sadly I don't use them anymore though. I think they are worth every penny if not more though. I never have a problem supporting someone trying to make it on their own and doing something they have a passion for. Sometimes that drive and passion is what really puts the extra special into the customs that you can really see and feel.

Kevin
 
rprocter said:
Custom Traditionals run from $300 to $3000. Custom Tacticals run about the same.
roland
Click to expand...

I am not sure that the OP's basic premise is correct which is:
that the custom traditionalist seem to have a much higher price than the more modern looking custom folders with the "higher end steels"
Click to expand...
. I had no idea what custom non-traditional knives sell so I visited a couple of dealer sites that carry those knives. It certainly appears to me that you can find knives at multiple price points from inexpensive to the absurd for both traditional and modern. Like anything it is what do you prefer? Over/Unders or pumps? Cane or graphite fly rods? Products made by craftsman that you can communicate with?
 
For me its a lot about feelings with sole authorship traditional folders. When you buy a traditional knife from a custom maker that does it all himself what you find or at least what I find is that each maker has his own feel. I'm not trying to come off as psychic but simply saying you have some that are crisp and snappy, spit shined and polished up and some that are laid back, dressed casual but ready to get after it. Some are sharp cornered and squared off feeling more like a cover girl model than a WWF wrestler ready to get dirty and some that are old timey and pocket worn! But no matter which one you get you get a part of the makers soul behind that knife. Someone put a small part of themselves into something you carry. Its all kind of nostalgic and worth exploring to me.

There are a host of traditional makers out there making knives using traditional methods and in my opinion with CNC machining and water jet/laser services being more and more the way things are done I find its no better time than now to get into supporting traditional makers. I try to snag as many each year as I can. Its my hope that my grandson will one day be able to look at and read the notes I make on them and maybe catch the same itch I caught from my grand dad many years back.

STR
 
Very well said, Steve. :thumbup:
 
cnas122 said:
Something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it ;)
Click to expand...

Clearly true on almost anything you buy.

It is easy to see within this forum which makers appeal to this traditional crowd. There are certainly up and coming makers where a guy can nab a great deal when a talented maker is building a reputation. I like the ones that have the knack for duplicating an old pattern, and putting their "signature" on it. I've not walked the plank yet, but sure do see some of the makers that get a lot of play in this forum whose knives I would love to own.

It is clear to see there is a lot of know how associated with the craft, and one not just anyone would be able to pull off. I agree there is something to be said about the craftsmanship and artistic abilities of the guys that make traditional slipjoints. Not to mention dedication and persistence. The knives do cost quite a bit, but it appears to me they earn it and then some.
 
comoha said:
Even with some steep prices I would think that if they were paid
by the hour for such knives they wouldn't be making a killing.
Click to expand...

BINGO.

There is a guy on another forum I visit who builds hardwood strip canoes in his back yard. He charger $3,000 - $3,500 depending on the type and size of canoe / kayak he builds. Sounds like he has it made right, so what's the catch? By the time he finishes, he often has up to 400 hours wrapped up in some of those small watercraft.

When you do the math, he doesn't even make $9 with his most expensive boats. He has to work a 'real job' to pay the bills. ;)

While a slip joint folder may not take anywhere near that many hours, I suspect the relationship is similar.
 
rprocter said:
Custom Traditionals run from $300 to $3000. Custom Tacticals run about the same.
roland
Click to expand...

Thats what I was thinking, I dont think I'll ever get into the higher end of customs but I can see where the work goes...fit and finish time can blow up pretty quickly. I have no idea how long it would take a maker to get a system to accurately quote a customer for a knife.
 
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