prices of G10 versus FRN handles

A

arty

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Oct 18, 2003
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Some Spyderco knives come in G10 and FRN. The G10 Delicas and Enduras cost perhaps 2X as much as the FRN versions. G10 can't be all that costly, since the Persistence is made from it, and it costs much less than a Delica.

Is it harder to finish the G10 to a higher level in the more expensive knives?
Is the G10 different in the Persistence and the Delica?

Anyone have a clue about why there is such a big price difference between the G10 and FRN versions of the same knives?

I admit that I like G10, and wonder if it is worth the extra money.
 
The reason frn is less expensive is because they are made in molds.
Once the molds are paid off it becomes really cheap to make in mass
numbers.G-10 is done on a smaller scale and with more finishing steps.
G-10 and CF are sometimes hand finished as well.
 
The Persistence and Tenacious are made in China whereas most other G-10 models are made in Golden, and most US models have premium steels (ex. FRN vs. G-10 UKPK).

I also think the quality of G-10 is different, the Tenacious' is very slick and feels cheap and useless to me compared to the G-10 on the orange Millie. Or FRN for that matter.
 
arty said:
Some Spyderco knives come in G10 and FRN. The G10 Delicas and Enduras cost perhaps 2X as much as the FRN versions. G10 can't be all that costly, since the Persistence is made from it, and it costs much less than a Delica.


Anyone have a clue about why there is such a big price difference between the G10 and FRN versions of the same knives?
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Click to expand...

Buddy, let's drop the knives and think! *Clunk, Stretch 2 CF on the ground*

First of all, the quality of the G10 and materials between the Tenacious/Persistence is vastly different. I have owned three Tenacious's (Tenaciousi) and all of them have feather weight G10 that feel like hardened Silly Putty. On the other side, the more expensive G10 paired with the knives made in Japan/Colorado have the Grippy, refined, quality feel with a heftier weight.

The price alone upgrading from FRN to G10 is vast, but don't forget that you also get Metal backspacers and the fit and finish of a custom Tailored suit.

So the question comes to, do you want to wear a rental suit to your Wedding or a Custom suit tailored to your dimensions? if you could justify the higher cost, you'll definitely look better in the nicer suit :thumbup:
 
I wore a rental suit, since it was a one time deal. I want my knives to last me for a longer time than the clothing. I'd be very unhappy with knives that don't last.
I do have a Rookie in my pocket, a Caly3 with ZDP189 (Carbon fiber handle) in the drawer, and 4 other Spydercos, all made in Japan.
I really wondered about the G10 and whether it is really that different in the more expensive knife. That question was answered, but I also wonder if there is any difference in the fit and finish between the G10 and FRN versions of the Delica or Endura.
FRN is a good material, as is G10. Are there other real differences between the VG10 knives that are offered in both handle materials?
 
FRN is injected into a mold. You pay for the plates (which are expensive), and then you shoot melted plastic into them. You can make many very quickly.

G10 scales have to be machined individually. There is more work involved, and they cost more as a result.
 
I like both, but I have a special place in my heart for G10 (like the Military and Para), just my material of choice.
 
IIRC Sal said that the labor for taking a piece of G-10 and putting it into a mill was more then stamping a FRN mold.

Also note that all G-10 used in Seki models (as I understand it) is first made here, then shipped to Japan (expensive), put together, and shipped back.
 
Personally, I feel the fit and finish is superior on the G-10 version of the Endura. I haven't handled a G-10 Delica, but I suspect the same will be true there as well.

As for the price difference, there are many factors. As mentioned, the FRN is injection molded whereas the G-10 is machined. From what Sal has said in the past, the labor to put a piece of G-10 into the CNC mill and then remove the finished scale costs more than molding an entire FRN handle (once the mold is paid for). Spyderco also has the G-10 for their domestic and Seki knives custom made with extra layers of fiberglass, which improves strength and allows milling out to nest liners but also adds to the expense. Also, the G-10 version of both knives used all new tooling. While some people have interchanged some of the parts, the blades were a different (and more costly) grind, the liners are full rather than nested, the backspacer was changed to steel...they really should have called it the Gen V.
 
A custom suit should fit better than one off the rack....I'm not sure the analogy holds when buying blades with more exotic or expensive parts.

Last week, I received a shipment that included a green and a blue Delica FFG and the Michael Walker CF.

I love the MW, but that is mostly because of its size.

The scales don't seem much different than those on the late, lamented Cat or Chicago -- which had street prices of less than one-third that of the limited run MW.

The real bargain here, IMO, are the Delicas. At $50 (less at some dealers), the FFG, VG10, light-weight, nicely balanced Delicas are a steal! I think the various colors of the FRN handles are beautiful.

My Sunday paper has an ad for "Saving Private Ryan" -- $12.99 in DVD and $24.99 in Blu-ray........Does it cost nearly twice as much to manufacture in Blu-ray?.....No, but consumers apparently are paying like it does.

Look at the prices of audio/video speakers.....you will pay hundreds of $$$ more for a few inches of wood on the cabinets instead of a synthetic which may be more durable and look just as good.

I like CF and G10 when they are executed well......But I have a hard time justifying paying twice the price when it comes to either of those materials.
 
If you look FRN delica and G-10 delica, besides already stated (mass production vs individual machinations) FRN delica's have rougher finish and its back spacer is made from FRN too. G-10's has very well finished stainless steel spacer.

More you put steel and less you put plastic, more expensive it will be. More you put manhours per knife, more expensive it will be. More you put high and steels to it, more expensive it will be and less you make the knives, more expensive they will be.

Spyderco makes alot more FRN Delica's than they do G-10 delica's, same goes rest of the knives and so forth. When you combine all of these, then you might realize why Spydero Urban can cost so much, despite its small knife and without locks etc and fewer parts than Delica...

Flash: yeah, did you know, making single DVD costs less than 12 snt's? Yet you pay sometimes nearly $20 from the DVD... Business is not charity so profit must be gained. Its somewhat more expensive to make Blue-rays than it is the DVD's, but overall DVD's are still made more than Blue-Rays and this also affects the price bit. Blue-rays are just comming to mainstream market so players and movie prices are still higher.
 
Hi Arty,

The reasons are often not what you might think.

As mentioned, FRN has high tooling costs, but less individual part costs. The high investment must require that the design is finalized (mold changes are also costly) and that the volume of sales will be large enough to pay for the investment.

As mentioned, our G-10 for US, Japan and Italy is made in the US and shipped. Also G-10 parts are machined individually so set-up time and machining time is high. On the plus side, tooling is less expensive as it is digital.

A major factor is country of origin. Dollar values are different in different parts of the world as compared to the US Dollar. The Chinese Yuan is about 20% of the US dollar IN EXCHANGE RATE. The Yuan as a dollar is worth a dollar in China. A Chinese worker working for 20 Yuan per hour is the equivalent of $20 per hour in the US. The advantage comes in the exchange and that's why knives like the Tenacious are less expensive. In additin the quality of the steel and G-10 are not as high. When some say that they work in China for $.20 cents per our, it is somewhat misleading (or ignorant).

Then there are close-outs where a model is taking up inventory money and will need to be closed out at a very low price (often a loss) to make room for a new model.

In making items like DVD's, the company's will usually charge as much as the market will bare because of the short perceived life of demand. In Spyderco's case, we work on relatively fixed margins that are as low as we can operate. This gives the customerr more value per money spent and it makes for a longer term value of the product. It is also difficult for competitors to offer as much value per dollar.

I am impressed that the knife afi's here know so much and are willing to take the time to share that knowledge. Goodonya!

Hope that helps.

sal
 
Sal,
Thanks for a fascinating peek behind the curtain of the economics of a multi-national manufacturer in today's world.

Question: What would it take to use even better parts in the Tenacious/Persistence line?....Would that be feasible for you financially?

Many here would leap at the opportunity to buy an upscale Persistence, say, or Cat, for example.....To be fair, I don't know whether that also would be true for a wider consumer base. But what would it take?

Thanks.
 
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