Pricing a knife made from a blade blank, help please

David Stifle

David Stifle

Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
10,188
Hi guys,

do you charge only for work you do to produce a knife made from a blank, or do you charge what the value of the knife is, regardless of whether you made the blade?

Thanks,

Dave
 
I've done this a couple of times. I don't like doing it though, probably won't again. How I bid it was pretty much like usual: materials+labor+shipping. So, if the blank cost me anything I'd add it, and the labor would be less if I didn't have to grind the blade, or HT it. I'd spend less on abrasives for polishing, and fuel/time for forging would not be applicable. I'd basically be charging for handle/guard materials and handle finishing time.

I guess the advantage as I see it would be the ability to make more knives to sell cheaper, not make more knives to sell at the same price I'd sell my own blades from scratch. Some do, but it seems often you hear of makers that are disingenuous with the public about whether they've ground blades themselves...
 
I do it that way too.
A $100 pre-made stainless damascus san-mai VG-10 core blade, plus $30 in handle materials, will sell for about $250. If you made it from scratch, it would have to sell for two or three times that price.......if you could make a stainless damascus san-mai blade at all.

Be honest in selling the knives, and say that the blades come from a Japanese Knife Blade company....which is the truth.....and that you take the blade and make the knife, doing all the final shaping and finishing.
 
So, I just want to make sure I understand what you guys are saying. If you buy a 1st class damascus blade, put a nice guard, handle and pommel on it, (and you know from past experience the market value of this knife is $500.), you would not price it at $500., but would only charge for the time and materials spent on the knife? Can not a knife be worth more than simply time and materials spent? Do time and materials equal market value?Oh, and yes, of course the buyer is informed of the blade's origin.
 
Nope. That's cheating. Everyone must forge their own blades. Do you want to be a blade decorator or a blade smith?

Preceding announcement made for fun.
 
David Stifle said:
Can not a knife be worth more than simply time and materials spent?
Click to expand...
It's a tricky question. I could make a replica of a Randall #1 with the same steel, materials, HT etc, but it's probably not going to command the same price as a real Randall because no one knows who the heck I am. Then again I could also make a replica of a K-bar, and I would have to charge 2-3 times what they do just to break even on it.

I believe it was Tracy Mickley who said, "If it sells immediately, you're not asking enough. If it doesn't sell at all, you're asking too much." :D
 
Right on!

I am not sure any small maker really feels that their pricing is "right". I think most keep raising it until their backlog gets under control, or lower it until they start selling in the first place...this whole idea that anyone might be making far more than their time and materials is prettyforeign to the guys I have talked too;)
 
If the item sells for considerably higher than the cost of time and materials, then the rest of us will soon be fitting them up ourselves and the market will soon be so flooded that you won't be able to give them away.
In other words, the market will only support an inflated price for as long as it takes someone to copy you and start under-selling you with the same item. A balloon price will eventually shoot you in the foot unless you can produce and sell a lot of pieces before your competition catches up.
 
I agree with pretty much all of the above. It's totally up to you, given that customers know what they are getting- either they buy at your price or they don't.

I wouldn't say that I can price my knives much above time and materials and sell them reliably. Occasionally I'll get a custom order from a collector who already knows what a nice knife is really worth, and that it's art. That's refreshing. Mostly, like many out there, I find it challenging to make a decent hourly wage at this.

Your mileage will vary depending on your public status, and ultimately, the quality of your work.

I'm just rambling, don't mean to come off preachy or pedantic... or like one of those guys whose sentences always trail off at the end.......
 
Fundamentally, any business has to operate at a profit. Time and materials alone doesn't really translate into profit. That's subsistence. Bear in mind that there are hidden costs to operating your business... wear on tools, electricity, gas, overhead, and so on. Those need to be covered as well. Usually, people don't itemize those other factors... they just throw in a percentage over cost that seems to work. Say, cost plus 30% to cover unitemized incidentals.

In the end, if this is really going to be a business for you it's on you to determine your business model. But you'd be wise to make sure you really understand your cost structure.
 
I make knives from blanks and have had several orders so far, all with great results and very very happy customers.

At my current skill level, I decided that an adequate price for the knives I make would be 2X what the materials cost. IE: Blade blank $25, micarta scales $5 and pins/epoxy I usually add in about $3. So $33.00 in materials invested = $66 for the knife. Then I add in accordingly for the sheath, which I also make, depending on style, tooling, etc. Finally, if I had to order the blade and handle material solely for this knife, I reimburse myself for shipping which is added to the total.

So far, I have not had anyone complain on pricing...in fact, I have had several people tell me that they expected to pay 1.5-2x what I charged. This has suggested to me that I am lowballing myself and need to bring my prices up a bit. Especially since my skills are improving substantially with each knife I make. One of my customers took a knife I made for him into a pawn shop just to see what the guy would offer...he offered $175 for a knife that I charged $85 for.

I inform all my customers, up front, that I do not grind the blades myself. The only work I do to the blade steel itself is embellishment (file work, jimping, etc), finish and full sharpening.
 
I understand where you guys are coming from; in the end, we will each try to charge a fair price based on a number of factors. Justin, I've only made one knife from a blank in my entire career, the one I'm talking about. I think Tryppry crystalized my thoughts, there's time, materials, and profit. I have yet to work out the whole market value thingy. But clearly, a maker needs to know the market value of his work, and that of others, in order to price correctly. Salem, you must be charging more than time and materials, though. Don't you incorporate a profit percentage somewhere, perhaps in your time? Well, we could probaly go around and around on this, I do like James quote by Tracey Mickley. That quote pretty much wraps it up nicely.

Dave
 
Its a common business concept (not just knives) that if you are backed up on orders you're not charging enough. If ya have product laying around you're charging too much. Which of course raises a whole nuther question which is define backed up? Tracey said it right.
 
Edit-
I'm gonna take my big market ideas and go somewhere else:) My response above dosen't make much sense considering the context. As long as you and your customer are comfortable with it, your pricing is probably in the ballpark. I have never had to answer this question for myself, so I probably can't add much beyond that, without tasting toejam:foot:
 
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Putting aside the whole blade blank issue, and addressing only pricing, I primarily sell to local hunters and sportsmen. In many cases, I give the knives away, in return, I've been supplied with venision, turkeys, rabbits, vegetables, firewood, snow removal, and I even had a highly qualified guy help me with a septic system problem. It keeps everything local, friendly, and beneficial to all. It's not even a matter of selling or bartering as nothing is discussed really, but for me, knifemaking is a great way to help establish friendships.

Dave
 
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Amen to that. I've traded knife, welding, and wrenching work for all kinds of useful stuff. Like, I fixed a terrible lift job on a friend's truck and welded the bed back on square and level, and got a Stihl 028 Super AV chainsaw in trade.

I live so far up this dang mountain that it's a joy when company stops by with something for me to fix.
 
Absolutely, trading is the way to go if a guy can. I've scored ironwood (lots of it), mammoth ivory (7 knife handles worth), a cow (no really, she's out at the ranch and gives me a nice calf every year), other burl wood and a saddle. You are on the right track Dave.
 
Bartering is great, now if I could only get the utility and mortgage companies to accept knives in lieu of cash... ;)
 
Horsewright, wow, man, a cow's a huge deal, and mammouth, a saddle? Your'e doing darn good yourself. James, I shouldn't have mentioned bartering, Uncle sam gets interested. No, this is just one fella doing a favor for another. With that said, thought you guys might like to hear the end of the story about the "professional varmint hunter.." His name is JJ, and after a while he came back. I said, "JJ, I think I have a coon under my house, what do you suggest?" He said, with absolutely no sense of humor, "well, a smart man don't go face to face with a coon, so I'd set a trap."
"What kind of a trap?"
"Cage trap, set with peanut butter."
"Okay, get him." and he did.

So, to make a long story short, I have him come by three times a week to sweep the shop and do a few things. He's fascinated by knifemaking, so I've got him doing a few things.

So, this has deviated greatly from my original post and is kind of drifting into around the grinder topics. If you guys care to continue, we can pick it up as a new topic in that forum. take care, enjoy

Dave
 
Its funny cause I just wrote that about trading and a guy walks in with a box of antler sheds and wants to trade. So he pays half in cash on a knife I had finished and the box of antler sheds. Cow cost me 5 knives and 2 pairs of chinks (short chaps for ya city guys) and the saddle was for riding a ladies horse for 3 months. Wasn't a lot of horse and I finally convinced her her stallion would make a good gelding and he did. To bring it back on topic here's an idea and what I do. Decide on an hourly wage you want to get paid. This hourly wage has to have profit incorporated in it too. Then figure materials cost (blade $25, stag $30, mosaic pins $5, leather $7, misc $5: electricity/wear and tear on machines/belts etc your tax guy will call these consumables). Then figure how long it takes ya to build the knife and add in the labor and you have how much the knife is to be sold for. The advantage here is it gives ya a formula so you stay consistent from knife to knife. Before this I found I was giving some away and making too much on others. Following this formula has let me run a better business. Now I make a profit on all of them and its a consistent ratio regardless of the price of the knife.
 
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