Pro "Oil" dye before tooling leather

[coldsteelburns]

I was wondering if anybody could help me out with this. On my previous sheath, actually my first leather sheath, I did the tooling pattern as it is usually done, and after I got the sheath stitched together I then dyed it with Fiebing's pro black dye. While I was applying the dye with the dauber it started to really soften the tooling patterns and almost completely washed it out after I was finished. I followed Paul Long's "casing" in his basic pouch sheath vid as best I could by using a spray bottle, so I don't know if that played a role.

Anyway, I was thinking on my next one, I will just dye the sheath before I start the tooling to hopefully avoid and of the details from softening of being washed out.

I noticed this also happened at the end when I applied neatsfoot oil to the sheath. It further washed out some of the details. I definitely stamped the pattern hard/deep enough, so that wasn't the problem.

So yea, I was just thinking dying before tooling and not using neatsfoot oil at all, but rather using on of the number of other products I have (bag-kote, resolene, Atom-balm wax, etc.) for the finish. One more issue I had with the neatsfoot oil was it lifting out the black dye when applying it re-wetting the dye in it. It wasn't excess pigment on the surface though as I thoroughly buffed that off. So another reason I'm thinking I'll just use something else.

Do any of you have any thoughts or suggestions regarding these issues I had and my plans for my next sheath, mostly regarding dyeing before tooling? Thanks

~Paul
My Youtube Channel
... (Some older vids of some of the older knives I made)

 

[jrbfishn]

I have done a number of pistol holsters, belts and knife sheaths with stamped stained leather. Sometimes it works and sometimes it does not. A large factor is how well the leather and stain combination absorb water. Allow the dyed leather to dry completely. I recommend to try a piece of scrap first. Part of the reason it seems to "wash out" the pattern is because the leather stretches when you bend or form it. The more you wet it with anything, the more the stamping will want to fade. Resolene or Super Sheen from Tandy will give you a good waterproof finish, but will wear because they are on the surface. If neatsfoot oil is causing your pattern to fade, you might try Mink Oil Paste in light coats. Rub it on like you would shoe polish and hit it with a heat gun or hair dryer just enough for it to liquify and soak in. repeat as needed for waterproofing. Any oil finish will dry over time and need to be reapplied as well. For a satin "real leather" look, I like Mink Oil after water forming. but be careful, any based treatment can make some projects too soft for their intended use. And applying too much gives them a nasty greasy feel.

 

[rtmind]

two tips for black. number one, try a vinegaroon to blacken the leather prior to tooling. this leaves no surface pigment, as it is a chemical change in the leather. number two, if you don't want to try number one, is to use a light coat of blue first, then black. this gives a rich black, and minimizes the amount of black needed and reducing lifting. rtmind/randy

 

[Horsewright]

I hate dyeing leather and almost won't. What weight of leather did ya use and what leather? Got any pics? Part of what you are seeing is dye transfer when you are oiling. Dye transfer can continue for years getting on your clothing etc I've also found that dyeing a sheath will lesson its useful lifespan by about half. It just dries out the leather. Dyeing tooled leather just washes out the detail and is another reason I dislike doing it. Here's two oak carved pancake holsters I did at the same time some years back. The one customer insisted on dark brown.

Just my regular russet Wicket and Craig leather that I use for carving projects:

Which one looks better to you? Which one shows the detail the best? Ya just spent a bunch of time tooling and then ya basically paint away all the detail. So whats a guy to do? Ya want a black tooled sheath? Get ya some drum dyed veg tan leather from either Herman Oak or Wicket and Craig.

This sheath was made for a customer here on BF. I used drum dyed veg tan from Herman Oak. So ya don't want to buy a whole side of this stuff? Springfield Leather will sell ya just a square foot or two. Thats what I did I bought 2 square feet from them. I believe District Leather will do this too.

However back to your original questions. Yes tool first. Make sure all moisture is out of the leather, then dye. Don't use a dauber use one of those disposable foamy brushes ya get a much more even coat. If you are wet molding the sheath for fit then dye after that again when the leather is dry. Best yet use the leather the pros dyed for you at the tannery. No dye transfer and you are not drying the leather out dyeing it