Probably Stupid Sword Question

Six String Samurai

Six String Samurai

Joined
Jun 26, 2001
Messages
72
Hi,

I know nothing about swords. So keep this in mind as I ask for some information about this.

I own two POS swords that I picked up at some point. I keep them in my office at school and recently, as I was going out the door for a few days vacation a couple of my students who were working on a audio recording project asked if they could use them to make SFX. In a hurry and not really thinking I said yes.

Well I came back to find one of them badly notched from where these two idiots hit the edges together in stead of the flats. The other one, a Zatoichi type sword, came through it pretty well.

Anyway this got me to wondering how badly a really good sword would be damaged in anything from simple sparing to actual use. I'll admit, all I know about swords comes from watching movies and I would imagine that this equals not knowing anything at all when it comes to blades.

Do really good swords get badly damaged if actually used?
 
My understanding of sword use is that yah, only idiots bang the edges together on purpose (they're only steel, after all), and, depending on technique and stuff, either blade contact would be (attempted to be) avoided altogether, and/or blocking would be done with the flat.
 
Swords used for cutting and stuff will look good with regular maintenance, but if you want a sword that looks perfect then it shouldn't be used. Ever try cutting mat cutting with a sword? I always used to get a few scuffs, but they never bothered me.
 
From studying the history of Japanese swords and all the schools of manufacture I have invariably gotten some info as to their use. The edges were never typically crossed. A parry would usually catch the edge of an opponents blade on the back edge of the sword or Mune which was very soft and would litterally catch the edge doing little damage to either blade, or even the ji or side of the blade. Many times sword duals were one swing affairs with a winner and a room temperature participant (ie. dual between Sasaki and Musashi). Hitting the edges together was very much a no no. Many swordmakers did try to make blades where the edge would fracture or chip lengthwise so that it could be repaired. Many times though improperly forged blades would crack through the hamon rendering them pretty much toast. Im sure it happened but never intentionally. I have seen a lot of nice blades with little dings in the edge and some with lots of severe dings. In all cases this was done by some idiot playing sword figther like your two students did it seems.
 
Yes, even a really good sword will get damaged with the. The amount of damage depends of course on exactly what they're impacting on, the force used, the hardness of the blade, torquing motions, etc.

However, damage to POS wallhangers will always be substantially worse than damage to any decent sword. For example, a Raven Armoury blade will slice through a few inches of meat, muscle, and split a good size bone lengthways without any damage, wheras using the same sword to attempt to cut into a lamp post will create "ripples" on the impacted edge, and maybe even chipping (although this is less common in swords than knives due to swords being relatively softer and "springier"). Trying to cut through meat, muscle, and bone would probably chip out a POS sword because the blades on these are basically big knives rather than swords.
 
Hi All,

Swords that are used in bouting will be damaged.

A hard edge parry with a western style shortsword wielded in the English fashion with the blow taken on the forte after a pass inwards and to the sword arm side will not be damaged. Parrying flat is a bad idea as a full force blow with a real sword will blow straight through it and drive your own blade into your body.

I make these parries at single sword in class all the time. My sword is fine. It actually receives more damage from the hard beats that have to be made in 1.33 style sword and buckler combat than it does from making stops with the edge.
Cheers
Stu.
 
Western fencing/sword fighting and Japanese style fencing if pretty different. The flat of the blade was used in a deflection/parry in Japanese practice. I have seen blades that have never seen a western abuser before with cuts in the mune and the shinogi from actual use. Crossing of the sharpened edge was never practiced. Nihonto usually have a finer cutting edge than on typical longswords and the like which had more of a cleaver type edge. Damage to the Ha or edge was usually more severe and could greatly shorten the life of a blade.
 
Do really good swords get badly damaged if actually used?

Yes. They are made to withstand some shocks (depending on the edge geometry, tempering, etc). but will fail if used improperly or roughly.

Keith
 
Yes they were designed to take some abuse and generally could withstand combat and require only minor touch up. Interesting to note that on a real Japanese sword there is a section called the "Monouchi". This was the last 1/3 or so of the blade out to and including the tip or "Kissaki". The better smiths would treat that area of the blade differently (construction, hamon thickness and type of crystaline structure) since it was that section of the blade that was used to "strike" the target and typically took the most abuse. So in some of the more revered blades the monouchi is studied seperately from the other parts of the blade.I really dont think that a lot of the smiths that make traditional pieces know this or pay it to much heed but correct me if I am wrong. Later in the Shinto and Shin-shinto era, smiths made more art pieces than using pieces. A lot of the blades are characterized as being too brittle or having too wide a hamon or poor sugata (shape). This is not true of all smiths but it became more prevalent.
 
I generally agree, especially with hard perpendicular contact.

In a more 'flattened' stance, you may be able to cant the blade at and angle so the opponent's blade just skips or deflects off the flat, much like the way armor is angled to provide deflective surfaces. Often this leaves an opening for counterattack, as you merely redirected the opponent's blow, and they will have to recover from the missed blow, tying them up for a fraction of a sec. Simultaeously, you clean up with the step-in, and hi to low counterthrust or slash along the plane you've made for the deflection.

Thicker heavier (and shorter) swords may be more shock absorbent.

Keith
En Ferro Veritas/
 
Hello,

Even you had a real Massamune (the one of the best katanas in the present time, and that is now in the Tokio museum) and is considered the best cut on this category, can be damaged if you do use it, so that the piece that is in there (Tokio museum) was never tested, but they know this great condition by the other swords made by the Massamune. The experts don´t want to risk to damage this expensive and great sword, they can´t be able to go agaist the laws of the physics, metal is metal, even the good ones. An indestructible sword is present only in movies...
 
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