Problem With My KMG grinder

Joined
Sep 13, 2004
Messages
1,553
I just bought a used KMG grinder and i am having trouble getting it set up correctly. when i turn it on i get a very loud anoying vibration. the motor is smooth as can be when i take the belt off. It is a variable speed motor and the higher the speed the worse the vibration. Everything seems to be lined up as far as the pulley's go.

The machine is abought 1 year old.

any ideas?

Thanks
Michael
 
FIRST......Try a new belt..........Then, you may need to do a runout on your pulleys and/or shafts (both motor and grinder). A local machinist may loan you a dial indictor that you can use.

Perhaps, since you purchased it used, it may have been dropped or bumped real hard when being moved and a shaft may have gotten bent slightly. It doesn't take much misalignment to cause vibration.

If you can't get it fixed, email me with a good price, and I will take the darn thing off your hands. :) :) :) :)

Robert
 
I had a vibration in my kmg,which I bought new.I checked it out and found the set screws loose on the bearings on the drive shaft,and tightend the set screws up but still had the vibs.I tooked the belt off and moved the drive shaft up down and sideways,and found that because of the set screws had worked loose the shaft itself had worn around the bearings.Causing the shaft to wobble.I called Belmont and Rob sent me out a new shaft with bearings after installing the new parts I coud not belive the differnce.It was as smooth as the first day I started it up.Rob is a heck of a guy to deal with and I've not regreted buy from and dealing with him.Hope this helps. BillyPotter www.potterknives.com
 
Roosko said:
If you can't get it fixed, email me with a good price, and I will take the darn thing off your hands. :) :) :) :)

Robert
GEEEE!!!! You are such a nice guy.
:eek: :eek: :eek: :D
I had the set screws come lose also. I put them back with Locktite or Superglue.
 
Hello Michael, I received your email also....I'll answer it here in the hopes that others can benifit as well.


First, we need to isolate the problem to either the belts or the machine.

This is easy....for side to side wobble...carefully watch the belt as it goes around. If the same spot on the belt moves ..say 1/8" to the left everytime the belt makes a revolution...then you have a case of "wobbly belts". In this case you can actually mark the belt and see the mark move from left to right ...at the same spot over and over.

If the machine has a problem, the spot on the belt will move left to right ...say 5X for every belt revolution. This is because the wheels on the grinder turn several times for each rev of the abrasive belt.

Belt wobble is an inherent evil that we learn to live with. Some belts are better than others. Some batches are better than others within the same manufacturer. The biggest cause for belt wobble is from leaving the belt on the machine over night. The KMG has more tension than other machines and will stretch your new belt such that "it ran great last night when I first put it on....but this morning it wobbles like crazy". I also see the wobble problem in trends. I attribute this to a batch off wobbly belts released into the supply chain. I may go 6 mos without hearing anything about wobble....then suddenly get daily phone calls about it...then as fast as the problems popped up, they dissapear for another 6mos or so.


Whatever the machine problem...it can be fixed. Bent shafts, crunchy bearings, out-of-round wheels......it can be fixed.


I hope this helps.

Sincerely,
Rob
 
I'm glad I read this post! From now on I'm going beltless. Rob, how often should we grease the grease fittings?
 
Hang in there ! I bet you still got a GREAT deal!!!
 
Micheal

Check the mechanical aspects first, following Ron's recommendations.

Check how you have the controller set up. Potentially, you have the current limit set too low. The motor will draw more current with the belt connected. This may then cause the controller to keep going in and out of current limit. This is just a long shot.

Good luck.

Phil
 
I tried a few belts and it happens with all the ones that i try. The wobble is just when the machine start up. It will move rapidly to the left about a half inch and then to the right about an inch and the it will center its self. I found that if i turn the screw under the tension spring to put more tension on the belt it eliminates it some what but not all that much

The problem with the thumping and vibration when I turn the variable speed up over half way happens even if i take the belt off and run it. The motor runs smooth at all speeds if i take the drive belt off.

thanks for all your help. I would be getting really pissed about this with out it.

Michael
 
I think we are getting somewhere. The belt erratically skating from one extreme to the other seems to point to a wheel the has a cupped center...meaning the edges of the wheel is larger in dia than the center. This is somewhat unstable...like standing on a basketball...as long as everything is perfectly balanced ...no problem. But the transient conditions get crazy.

Here's a trouble shoot for the skating problem:

does it do this just with the contact wheel...but not the platen attachment. (cupped contact wheel)

Wrap electrical tape around the center of the tracking wheel to build up a ridge about 1/16"....more stable..? Try the same on the drive wheel....better yet. If this is the case, a crwoned set of wheels is the fix. Not knowing the vintage of your machine.....earlier machines came with flat tracking wheels...and flat drive wheels.



Thumping and vibration....I'll get back to this....gotta run now...lunch is ready.

-Rob
 
OK, about the thumping and vibration. It should be fairly obvious if there is something wrong with the driveshaft....look for looseness, side to side play, bent shaft, binding, wobbly wheel....etc.


Also, look at the pulleys used between the motor and grinder, they need to be tight. Die cast pulleys are inherently inexpensive, out of round and out of balance. They have cause these types of complaints in the past. The solution is a premium set of cast iron, machined and balanced pulleys that run true and smooth.

Phil made a very good point about the controller settings. There is a trim pot inside the DC controller named "IR". This controlls how fast the controller responds to loads. If it is too sensitive, the motor performance may be erratic at times and will surge, lurch and jump around at various intensity depending on how extreme the situations are. Basically the controller is over-compensating to loads. It runs smooth without the belt as expected, however, the belt(load) seams to highlight the problem....this kinda points to this adjustment. Try turning down the "IR". When it is turned down too low, the grinder will lose speed under load and will be sluggish to recover. This is an adjustment that you tweek under power to find the optimum for your situation and preference.

I leave belts on my grinders all the time...I'm too lazy to take them off...and really don't care about wobble. Mostly, I use the face of the belt...not the edges. So it is no big deal to me if the belt wobbles. If you need true running edges, (most of you do) ...take the belts off at night.

As far as grease for the drive shaft bearings. I had a very interesting conversation with a bearing engineer about this. The jury is still out, but his recommendation was "never lubricate the bearing...period!" He explained that rolling element bearings don't need lubrication since everthing is in rolling contact...and not sliding. The problem is that too much lub in the bearing causes the rolling elements to "skid" rather than roll. They hydroplane under very light loads and high speed as the balls plow through a thick goo of grease. When they skid, they scratch the surfaces. With this idea...he stated that in tests, a completely dry bearing will last longer than an over- filled bearing. Hmmmm....I would have never thought this. So, I never lube them even though this is against what normal logic tells me.

-Rob
 
The tracking wheel and the drive wheel are crowned. Is it possible that the tension spring needs to be replaced? it looks like the sudden surge of power when i turn on the controller is making the tracking arm jump and that seems to be causing the belt wobble. I guess i could pull the tooling arm out more to give me more tension on the spring but i have seen other kmg grinders and it seems to me that there springs were alot tighter. Maybe not though....

I dont think the drive shaft is bent because it does not wobble at all . the drive wheel seems very smooth when it is at full speed it just sounds like it is going to blow up because of the vibration and thumping.

I do have one of those high quality 5" cast aluminum pulleys on the motor. I also have the 3 speed pulley that was purchased from you , with the grinder on the drive shaft. I have a 3.75" machined pulley that I could try putting on the motor. If i used that pulley on the motor and the 2" wheel on the drive shaft will that be acceptable as far as speed goes. I have a Leeson 2500 rpm motor - 1.5 hp.

Thanks everyone.

Michael
 
I just ordered new machined pulleys from Rob. I think the problem was that cheap ass aluminum pulley on the motor. Maybe this problem is why the guy sold the grinder in the first place. Well, at least he saved $5 when he bought the pulley.
I am confident that the new pulleys will fix the problem. It turns out I did get a great deal after all. Its not often that you find a KMG on the used market.
I guess I was in the right place at the right time. I now have a Hardcore and a KMG-1. Life doesnt get any better than this!!!

Thanks Everyone.

Michael
 
I need a use slack belt attachment :D
Yeah right.......like there's such a thing.
 
Micheal

Have a look in the manual and see if there is a way to control the ramp up rate. If so, turn it way down so that the motor accelerates really slowly. The harder the motor has to work, the more likely a funny setting will cause the motor to behave erratically. Adding the drive belt adds the inertial load of the driven wheel and the drive belt. Adding the abrasive belt adds the inertial load of the abrasive belt and all the other wheels on the grinder. An out of round pulley probably will not help.

It might be a good idea to check all the settings on your VFD. Often, just one setting being incorrect will cause all sorts of grief. It happens here on the production line every so often.

Good luck!

Phil
 
I just got the new pulley's from Rob. WOW that is one smooth grinder! I have a Hardcore Grinder sitting 3 feet from the KMG. Both of them are fantastic!!

I dont know which one is better but i do know a new KMG is about $1000 cheaper than a new Hardcore.

I dont think there is a better deal out there than the KMG

I got mine used with the following attachments:

an 8" contact wheel with a tooling arm,
a spare tooling arm, a slack belt attachment with a 2" contact wheel in place of the aluminum wheel,
a small wheel attacment,
a 3/4 and 1" small wheel,
a 1 hp AC motor with a switch attached,
two 3 way pulleys,
1 cheapass pulley,
1 extra 4" machined pulley
a flat platten attachment
a tool rest.
grinder itself


Anyone want to guess what i paid for it?




Thanks Rob.

Michael
 
Back
Top