production steel ??? and thoughts

johnwaynesandw

johnwaynesandw

Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
2,753
Hello all, I have been using the main three steels Buck has put in their factory production knives. I have a few opinions, but I want the opinions of the other members. Not looking at a table with the characters of each steel and given they all have the same grind, what steel do you like best and why.

One thing I have noticed about Buck's newer 420HC is when I cut cardboard it feels a little bit like it has tiny serrations, but the edge is stropped. I think it has to do with the way they cut the blades out. there seems to be ridges along the blade. I don't get the same feel with the older 420HC (comparing a 1995 560, 1194 422 (should be 420HC) to a 2006 119, 110, 301 and a 2008 112 .

I have a 4 dot 110 that has 425M steel which seems a lot like ATS34 to me. I have played around with that knife. I have thinned the edge nice and thin. I have been using it hard and I really like the way it holds up, but the 440C (2 dot 112) Seems to be in a class all on it's on.

The old 440C seems to be harder and holds an edge longer. My 112 has had the edge 2K treatment and I really like the way it cuts.

I think the old 440C is top in my book. I have no problem with getting either of the steels sharp, so I like all of Buck's steel and they all do the job just fine, but there is something about the old 440C that ends up as my EDC more often than any other steels.

What steel do you like best?


Thanks,
John
 
John, I feel the same way. I've many new folders with wonder steel (30V,BG42,D2,etc)
but the 440c from my no dots and 2 dots is my favorite. It doesn't get as razor sharp
as some but keeps a working edge like no other. Very good corrosion resistance and
tough as hell. Without my sharpmaker I could see it being a bear to sharpen back then.
 
i seem to agree with both you, the 440C was a good working edc edge!

a lot of folks could not sharpen the thick edge of the 2 dots and earlier..
for real i have cut the steel banding on electrical conduit with my 2 dot!!
now for meat cutting/skinning there is a way to sharpen that is not the same as a shaving or whittling edge..

i have not used bg42 much at all so i can not give a report on it.
i have used the s30v and find it is great! i like it for the corrosion resistance and the hard sharp edge ...
for use around any thing with salt content, and this includs blood, it wont corrode if you rinse it off !
i have had 440C get pits if it was not cleaned better then jest a rinse ...
for me fishing hunting wet use go s30v i love it...
for construction work and edc 440C is jest fine with its slightly tougher edge..
 
Thanks guys for your input.

Dave I did not know that the old 440C would be that tempermental. I have yet to try out the S30V, but I think I may have to get one soon ;).


for those that have used both steels, what do you like better, BG-42 or S30V?



Thansk,
John
 
I've not had 440C stain or corrode when exposed extensively in blood or animal goo or ocean water and left for days unrinsed. S30V holds and edge about 50% longer because of the vanadium content yet has less chromuim hence less corrosion resistant. Whereas 440C has much higher chromium content hence a far better stainless. I've used both extensively and not noticed one cutting any quicker or better. If that is noticed I'd attribute it toward edge thickness not the steel. Remember, all things being equal a thin edge cuts better because of less resistance and as long as the heattreat is sound.Both are top grade steels. It depends on what you want--one is very hard to mirror polish and 440C takes a NICE mirror polish.DM
 
I like my 2 dot 440c 11o's, I have two for EDC rotation, and I have a AG110 in that rotation also. When I get a chance to order some CS 110's they will be S30V all the way!!:thumbup::D:thumbup::D:D HL. PS nice to meet you 334Dave, hope to see you soon some time.
 
Wll guys I have been trying out some more 425M steel, and I am very pleased with it. Doing some yard work, the 425M seems to hold up very well like the old 440C (I have not compared them side by side).

Not sure why Buck stopped using this steel, but it seems to be good stuff.


John
 
I pretty much like all the steels that Buck uses, but if push came to shove, I would give the nod to ATS-34 and CPM154. I have found that these two steels have a 'toothy' edge that seems to cut better, to me at least.
 
I can't discuss the older 110s because I no longer can find the old 425M bladed one I have that served me in the Navy. Now I'll have to tear the house apart.:p

I do have some BG-42 and 420 HC 110s and an S30V Kalinga Folding Pro and Hartsook.

My "supersteel" Bucks easily perform better than the 420HC models in ultimate sharpness and edge holding. The heat treat is spot on across all models.

From now on, I'll be buying the Buck models that interest me in the upmarket blade steels only, and buy the 420HCs as gifts for my sons and nephews.

This is not to knock the 420HC, because that steel serves its purpose to keep prices reasonable for continued American production, but enthusiasts are better served by the more sophisticated alloys.
 
My old 110 in 440C is tops. The 440C holds and edge best among their standard steels.

I have a 303 in 425M (Camillus-made, I think). I have always loved that knife, but always thought the 425M needed a bit more oomph in the edge retention department.

I have a new 301 in 420HC. It holds an edge better than the Camillus 425M 303, not even close to the 440C, though. I find it holds an edge similar to 440A, but lags behind AUS8 by a goodly bit.

If you are noticing a difference between Buck 420HC blades from post 2000 compared to those from the 90's, you are probably noticing effects of the Buck Edge 2000 profile. Buck did a lot of CATRA testing in the very late 90's and developed a new blade profile. They changed the edge angle as well as changing the exact shape of the hollow grind.
 
I have been keeping quiet on blade steel of 300s for some time. What "I" have been TOLD and what I can find no written "proof" against is ----------- you can NOT be certain of the type of blade steel in your old, pre Buck Manuf., 300s. Most likely the early Schrades were 440C but the Camis. after that were anyones guess. They were whatever Cami. felt like putting in and stamping the Buck logo on. I have heard several odd types thrown out. Does anyone know somebody that bought steel for Camillus in the 70s and 80s ?

After 86, 425 on the BUCK scale shield, brass liner models and 420HC when the solid bolster/liner models I feel good about. I was hoping to find some secret cache of info to prove me wrong and give PRECISE info of the past. But no such luck......anyone out there with accurate-real info. I am willing to be proven wrong.."the real truth and nothing but the truth"....300Bucks:yawn::foot:
 
Last edited:
300Bucks said:
I have been keeping quiet on blade steel of 300s for some time. What "I" have been TOLD and what I can find no written "proof" against is ----------- you can NOT be certain of the type of blade steel in your old, pre Buck Manuf., 300s. Most likely the early Schrades were 440C but the Camis. after that were anyones guess. They were whatever Cami. felt like putting in and stamping the Buck logo on. I have heard several odd types thrown out. Does anyone know somebody that bought steel for Camillus in the 70s and 80s ?

After 86, 425 on the BUCK scale shield, brass liner models and 420HC when the solid bolster/liner models I feel good about. I was hoping to find some secret cache of info to prove me wrong and give PRECISE info of the past. But no such luck......anyone out there with accurate-real info. I am willing to be proven wrong.."the real truth and nothing but the truth"....300Bucks:yawn::foot:
Click to expand...


Good to know. Thanks.
 
you knwo i said of the 440c haveing some rust issues..
well i was looking at a custom i know has 425M and it has some trash spot comeing through the mirror polish..
could be i was mistaken in that it could have been one of the 425M bladed knives i had trouble with ... i know it happened on two knives i had...
what years did they use the 425 M again?
 
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