Production vs. Custom

Joined
Nov 2, 1999
Messages
1,437
As of late, I have been pondering "production or custom?" So far I have only bought production knives, all under $120. Recently I have been wondering if my money would be better spent on something more collectable.
I mean, for the price of three production knives, I could get a pretty decent custom. On the one hand, it'd be really nice to own a custom, but on the other hand, with that kind of investment I don't know if I'd use it that often (if at all). With production knives I know I'll use it, but I already have more knives than I NEED.

What's a knife nut to do?

~Mitch
 
Buy a custom. I started out collecting production knives, and used every one. Then I bought my first custom, nominally a using knife by Jim Largent. I still have Jim's knife, and I've sold all the production knives except for a couple. Shopping for, and owning customs is just more fun. Going to a knife show and visiting with the makers is really fun when you have "I'm gonna buy one of these knives, but which one?" in the back of your mind.

Even though I go to knife shows to sell now, I still look around for that next custom.

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Matt Harildstad
Knifemaker
www.planet.eon.net/~matth
matth@planet.eon.net

 
Mitch, I think you have already come to a conclusion. You have enough knives, you have enough using knives, you want the pleasure of owning something a little more special. Who deserves that more than you? I've come to the same conclusion since coming to the Forums. My only regret is, if I buy a custom hunter I'll never use it as it was intended. That's not a crime. What would be a crime for me, is to just be buying more of the same. In fact the only thing that would make me happier than buying a custom knife, is making a custom knife.

You have made a decision, haven't you? I dare anyone to talk you out of it.

PhilL
 
Mitch, since you have the production knives go for the custom just for the pure pleasure of it.
Here's what I do-I carry a Benchmade Pinnacle($95) in my pocket with clip and a Bob
Terzuola ATCF with ironwood scales and anodized titanium bolsters($450) in a belt sheath. I use both but use the BM for anything that might damage a knife so the Terzuola stays nice. And if I do get alot of scratches or something on it and ever want to sell it-I send it to Bob for a nominal fee for refinishing.
Anyway-just the way I do it.
Dave

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lifter
Phil. 4:13

Dave
Wharton,NJ


 
This can blow up into an asbestos-underwear type of flame war, but my take on the production vs. custom debate:

--A custom knife will have more potential to appreciate in value.
--A custom, no matter how bad it's constructed, will still have an aura about it.
--A custom, with some users, will never be used.
--A high end production piece will easily compete--performance wise--with 99% of the custom pieces, usually for less purchase cost.
--A production piece won't instill the use-guilt syndrome, usually.
--A production piece can be bought without an extremely long wait period.

...Just some things I think about. I've owned 3 custom pieces (all Elishewitz's)and own a crap-load of production pieces...and each time I get the custom knife BUY ME NOW! bug, I pass it by, mainly because if I shell out 400-ish on a knife, I want to use the damn thing without worrying about damaging it, losing it, etc...Oh well, it's late, and I have a turkey to mangle...GOBBLE GOBBLE GOBBLE

--dan

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The blacksmith and the artist reflect it in their art...They forge their creativity closer to the heart...




 
Your getting the right answer from everybody else on this thread. Buy the best you can afford. Buy fewer better knives than more lesser knives. You'll enjoy them more.


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Fred
Knife Outlet
http://www.knifeoutlet.com


 
Mitch,
I too have ponder on this question for quite some time now and have come to a conclusion. I've decided to go for custom made only. No to say i would stop buying production pieces but not in the near future.

In the past 5 years, i've been collecting production pieces. What's worst is that in those particular college years, i can only affort cheap taiwan knives. My REAL U.S made knife was a Gerber E-Z out and the feeling was overwhelming at that time. It WAS like a custom knife to me....

Time had change my perspective since i'm working now and i can affort "better" knives. I still keep the production pieces for daily uses cause the custom made pieces is way TOO expensive to damage like DANO had mentioned. But somehow, the old production pieces have a personas of themselves over the years and i just can't bring myself to abuse them.

It's going to be a bit off topic from here onwards so if you're interested, read on. The old production pieces is like your wife at home who does all the hard chores, helping you in everyway and the custom pieces are your mistress whom you show to your friends. Admit it, we hide our case or gerbers but shows our.....(no name mention here.) True that the custom pieces will have value in time to come and the production pieces will go to the bin or chucked away in some old tool box, but i've decided to keep them in the same drawer. Custom piece's aura are given by the maker (like my MadPoet and Gary Bradburn) but the OLD production pieces are given by you......YOU will decide if it lives or not.

I think the work is getting to me.....my apologies.

[This message has been edited by keninshiro (edited 25 November 1999).]
 
Customs have "soul"- production knives do not
I carry and use my customs, but I don't hurt them. I usually carry a factory knife for the mundane utility stuff that might shorten the life of a knife.
When our friend Mel Sorg "Madpoet" passed on I didn't feel I could use his beautiful custom "Ironwood Camp Set", but after careful consideration, I knew Mel intended it to be used. I recently skinned/caped, quartered, and boned out a whitetail without any hint of wear on the knives.
Go for a custom, keep a few factories around for stripping wire.
 
There are many price ranges in custom knives. You don't have to start with a high dollar piece. As stated, it sounds like you have decided already. I hope you like the one you get. I am sure you will.

Have fun with your search.

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Lynn Griffith-Custom Knives
New model, the "Marksman" just added toMy website
GriffithKN@aol.com


 
Customs are the way to go.I've spent alot of money on production knives and I always seem to become unhappy in some way.I buy useing knives and stay away from stuff that is too pretty to use.I have alot of fun looking and talking to custom guys.Most of them are truely into making high performance knives and encourage you to use their pieces.
scott w
 
Absolutley Incredible comments. I don't know if I have ever seen the "nail hit on the head" so completly.

Excellent advice.

Almost all of us start with production. For me, I went to custom knives, because I found the factory knives just didn't hold up to hard use. This was 15 years ago, and factory knives have improved tremendously. Due in large part to the factories working with the custom knife makers.

I bought my first custom knives to use. However, I was bit bad by the bug. As others have stated, there is an aura around custom knives, Custom knife Shows and the people who move in this circle.

It's almost like belonging to a club. Where else can you find people who will look at a $1,000 knife and congratulate you for getting it so "Cheap".

I think that pride in ownership goes a long way to explain the reason that a lot of people own muliple custom knives.

It appears that there are just more people buying knives these days. With the prices of the factory knives being what they are. It is making the move to custom knives that much easier.

Les
 
That is the great thing about this hobby or affliction,Collection have many levels and consantly change.There is also the limited production market,all of my custom knives are non users except one Randall. My sway has been more to customs as of late ,although I just picked out my christmas present my wife bought it, a 5 blade peanut with MOP handles , and it was made by Case.At the last Blade show David Manley had some very nice bird and trout knives with stag handles and leather handmade sheath for 80.00.I have found that meeting and talking with the makers you can usualy find they will most often have something in your range.
 
Quothe Fred: "Buy fewer better knives than more lesser knives". This is great advice. I wish I`d had that tattooed to my forehead years ago. I think we all fall victim to the urge to aquire all sorts of "lesser" stuff, and we end up never having the funds available when some really special custom piece comes along. It`s a habit I`m trying to break. I want more pieces from individual craftsmen rather than a particular factory.

I do, however, love the fact the so many factories do custom colaborations. Some excellent pieces (and excellent value) come from these colaborations. Kershaw/Onion comes to mind. Outdoor Edge/Ralph. CRK&T/Carson. Spyderco/(insert maker name here) Some great stuff at great prices.
 
Everyone is attracted to one knife or another for a reason. It may be size, shape, materials, whatever. The best idea I ever heard about collecting things is this. You should collect only those things that toush you in some way. Collect things that you like, everything else is just a bet on future dollar value
 
Steve,
Let's try this another way,
How many Factory colaborations would you trade for a REAL; Onion, Ralph, Carson or (insert makers name here)?
 
Somehow I just skipped right over production knives and started buying customs. I have two brothers who seem to have just about every +/- $100 production knife there is. One has sent me several knives over the past ten years: a Gerber LST, a Bolt-action exchange drop point with saw, a Boker Speed Lock (he was in Germany), and most recently a Benchmade 710 BST. He seems to buy more knives than he needs and gives them away to justify buying more.

Although both of my brothers have a couple of Randall hunters (I consider these to be production pieces as well, although of a much better quality than most), they have not yet caught the handmade (custom) bug. Their Randall's cost as much or more than some of my hand made knives. I can't quite figure that one out. They loathe using their Randall's. I think they MUST be used to be fully enjoyed. Forget about the resale value. The money is Gone already.

I don't think of knives (production OR custom) as investments. There are MUCH better ways to invest your money. Focus on Quality and less on Quantity. Your knife budget doesn't have to change at all. And don't be afraid to use custom knives. Almost everymaker still living will refinish a knife for a very small fee. And some of us think that personal history marks on knives can ADD value.

As a recreational woodcarver, and someone who loves hand worked ART of all kinds, I was immediately attracted to hand-made forged knives. Seeing Daniel Winkler's work in a magazine is what kicked me over the edge into Knife Knuttiness. It was still several more years of reading and looking before I bought my first hand made knife. When I went to my first show and discovered good quality sole-authorship forged knives in plain tool steel for +/- $100, I was hooked. My budget has increased for hand made knives since that first show, but I still like a good hand made user that is inexpensive.

Since reading Bladeforums I've noticed A LOT of folks talking about collections with thirty, forty, or more $100 production knives. Don't buy so many production knives and save for a totally unique, totally cool hand made knife. Or two. Or three or More. Quality is much more enjoyable than quantity.

Just a few months ago, I was embarrassed to admit to one of my brothers that I was still carrying the Gerber LST everyday. So I upgraded to a Benchmade 850 designed by Mel Pardue, and a small Spyderco Centofante, and I also got a Ken Onion Kershaw mini task knife. I love these designer production pieces for daily carry, but if I could afford to USE a hand made (custom) damascus gentleman's folder with Mammoth ivory scales and damascus bolsters, I would have one of those too.

It is important for me to be able to USE my knives, even if they cost hundreds of dollars. But even I think that some knives are so expensive and exotic that you just can't stand to use them. There is no easy answer to the question "what is the price threshold for a using knife?". Only the buyer can decide that one. For me, this has gone up about 500% in the last few years. But a hand made gentleman's folder like I want is going to cost me more than a $1000. That is at least twice my comfort level for a using knife. So I don't have that Gentleman's folder YET. But I will someday. I think that the pricier production pieces are hard to justify, particularly when there is so much good hand-made knife making work being offered in the same price range.

Paracelsus
 
PhilL-If you can find me someone who`ll trade me a custom Ken Onion folder for my Random Task, I think I`d be willing to deal!

Another aspect of custom vs. production is usability. I`ve lost Spyderco`s and Bucks at work, and I can eventually get over it. If I lost a custom Kit Carson at work, I`d have a stroke! Right now I`m using a Random Task at work. It fell out of my pocket the other day and I was really starting to bum out while I was looking for it. I did eventually find it, but, gosh what a crappy feeling it is losing a knife. I think that feeling would increase relative to the amount of dollars spent!
 
Paracelsus,
Why do you consider Randalls to be production knives? My understanding is they are all handmade, with no patterns, and options available. What am I missing here?
PhiL
 
Steve,
I'm sorry, I think you missed my point. I didn't mean a one for one trade. I meant how many production knives (5,10, 20) would you be willing to trade for ONE, custom made knife? For me the choice is easy, I'd rather one $300 custom, than three $100 productions.
I wouldn't like losing any of them, I lost a $20 knife last year and that upset me. My point was sometimes reversing a question, can get you to an answer quicker. Sorry, for the confusion.
 
Hey, Mitch, what are you waiting to buy that first custom.
As a collector - I have colected it all, production, custom, antique, sold entire collections to buy others of different stuff, etc.. - I can only tell you that if you decide not to go for custom knives now you´ll miss a lot of fun in knife collecting.
As a full-time dealer, I have heard many customers on the phone right after they get their first custom knife, and I could feel their satisfaction and excitement were just like mine when it was my turn to wait for that box to arrive - and few sensatios compare to that (though it certainly happens with collectors of everything).
Regarding using or not that knife, it´s up to you. Some people feel they will be loosing something if they don´t, but my experience as a dealer shows that even cheap customs are very often treasured and spared from hard use - I don´t think this point is so important, and I believe you will have a chance to decide it by yourself when the custom knife you have chosen arrives.
Good luck with your custom knife - I´m sure you´ll buy it, all you wanted with this thread is someone to tell you to go ahead and you surely got enough of it!!

Ivan Campos

P.S.: and please don´t forget to tell us what custom knife you have chosen
 
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