Professional knife makers

M

Makermook

Joined
Feb 28, 2011
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Let me please start by saying I don't want to open up another mess like I did with my first post... :)

I'm genuinely curious about something, and here's the short version: In order to sell enough knives to earn a living, does the average professional knife maker have to sacrifice any degree of "oomph" in the final product?

Now the long version...

I've made several dozen knives, sold a very few and given away most. I don't fancy myself anything more than a novice, a hobbyist. But if I think of what it requires out of me to make a knife, the supplies, the time, etc., versus what I can imagine selling a knife for, I'd make more money at a burger joint.

(With time and better equipment and a lot more experience, I'm sure I'd be more efficient with my time.)

We all have those dream blades we want to make, the "best I've got in me" projects. Maybe we've made one or two. But these ultimate displays of craftsmanship take so much more time and effort that we can't make every knife to that standard, sell it for what it's worth, and still make a living...

...or can we?

Or does the typical professional knife maker have his bread 'n' butter products that he sells by the dozen to keep the cash-flow coming, but which (due simply to economics) lack the punch of the really top-of-the-line stuff?

What I suppose I'm getting at is this: Can a knife maker make a living only making and selling knives where each and every one is his best effort to date (as time consuming as that may be), or does economics dictate that those are rare projects and "basic" knives are the bulk of his business?

I really am curious about the economics of this, and I'm not trying to imply any lack of quality in anyones work at all.
 
Make crap and it will only sell to those that don't know any better, but as your prices go up and they need to do that, your sales will drop off. There are in fact not many makers living well on just the money they bring in selling knives. Some are excellent makers by the way who are honest enough to tell you that although they have enough equipment and know how to use it, it just only seems to get to a certain amount of return for the hours put in. On the other hand there are many makers who have part support from their others, a part time job or a retirment they worked at in another life to now have.
It is important to sell and for many this provides the money for equipment and materials to make.It can also give you a boost just knowing people will actually pay for something you made.
I'm saying if it's the big bucks you are after, don't try to do it making knives. Building houses could be very good.
For me I do for the making for myself with the hope others will enjoy what I make and make purchases. I try to make every knife from the one with the least expensive materials to the one with the most expensive having my best quality of work only showing. And no I sure can't afford to give any away. Frank
 
The quality of a handmade knife is its selling point. If you lower the quality, you remove the reason someone would buy it. A good usable fillet knife can be bought at K-mart for $10-15. I sell 50 to 100 of them every year for $85-95. Why would anyone pay that??? Because you can't get an attractive and handmade knife at K-mart.

My advise to any newer maker is to make every knife the best you can do. The person most cheated if you don't is you.

As far as making any money selling knives, I will quote Cleston Synard:
"If I won the lottery, I'd still keep on makin' knives....until it was all gone!"

For most all makers, selling the knives is a way to pay back a part of the expenses that this hobby incurs. Few actually make an overall profit from their knives. Even the full-time makers who live on their sales often agree they would make more money flipping burgers. Without a spouse that has a good job and benefits like insurance, most full time makers wouldn't be able to make end meet,either.

About your other thread:
I moved it to "Around the Grinder" because it was not really a topic for this forum, and the replies were getting very Off Topic. If you wish I can move it to "Whine and Cheese", but all the weirdos hang out there, and I think it would quickly degrade into something that gets locked.
You did not do anything wrong, and it was not your thread topic or anything you posted that was the cause of the move. It was the answering posts and the direction they were headed that caused the move.
 
my job is a 24/7 ... 365 job...... there is no such thing as time off,, or after work,, my phone and i are.....lets say .. intimate
 
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I think professionals in general need to pay closer attention to diminishing return and would be much less likely to spend double the amount of time and money to make a knife potentially 1% better,… without also having to double the price. In effect, doubling the price for a potential 1% improvement would drastically reduce the number of potential customers, unless perhaps you could convince them that such minor improvements would be worth it and that they could still afford it.

In general, professionals need to give their customers the most bang for their buck. That’s why they are professionals and can command higher prices.
 
Well I'm going to be "That Guy" and tell you there is a light at the end of the tempering oven:D. If you work smart, efficiently and honestly, you can earn a living from making knives but you need to have a "full package". The quality has to be there, of course... but essentially, knife collectors, users and dealers are buying a "hockey card"... they are purchasing YOU. If you rely on just the knives, and put no effort into personalizing the package... it could be tough. I am enjoying at bit of recognition with my knives lately and couldn't be more greatful for it. I intend to ride this out as long as I can but realise that it won't last forever. One way to combat this, it to reinvent yourself when things start to level off. Daniel Winkler is a great example with his recent WKII line of tactical stuff..... brilliant!

I have joked about this before but there is something very real(and scary) about my observations. I have noticed that the makers who have the most drop-dead, sickening, superhuman artistic talent are usually(not always) the ones who tell you that there is no money in knifemaking. I believe there is a point where quality and talent surpass the price point that the maker is able/willing to ask for. Could you imagine if all of these great makers got exactly the prices they deserve for the passion they pour into each knife?.... while they are still alive:eek: :p

Another goal of mine is to eventually make a living from simply LIVING. I also enjoy leatherworking, wilderness skills, primitive craft, music and martial arts. I have found ways to pull an income from all of this. My wife and I are working toward having some land to set up our dream "complex" of organic food growing, permaculture, sustainable/off-grid housing, Eco-tourism and wilderness living. So for me, being able to make a living by just doing what I would normally do everyday, is the plan. Also, finding ways to SAVE money is just as good as earning it.

Rick
 
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Rick Marchand said:
...I have noticed that the makers who have the most drop-dead, sickening, superhuman artistic talent are usually(not always) the ones who tell you that there is no money in knifemaking.
Click to expand...

Makes sense to me. I think it has a lot to do with the size of the market. There's just not that many people buying $3000 bowies on any kind of regular basis. There is however, a much wider market for $300 hunters, kitchen and utility knives with great fit and finish, made from quality materials.

I don't think you have to crank out shoddy crap to move product, and I don't think that would be smart anyway. There are people who want something a big step up from K-mart or WallyWorld but when they're laying out a couple hundred instead of $40, they want to see some craftsmanship. As it should be!
 
Too much generalizing. Many makers will have some sort of sacrifice to make a living with their knives. Maybe it's their own time, maybe it's their standard of living, maybe it's their quality of materials or maybe it's their fit/finish. Other makers don't have any of those problems.

Maybe no one here is trying to compromise their workmanship or material quality, but we can't say what everyone is doing. There's just not one box to put "professional" knife makers in. When we say a majority, are we talking about 50.001% or more? And how are we measuring "oomph"? Is it anything less than the very best they can ever possibly make?

I'd say that 99% of makers out there make some or many knives that are not the top of their game, not because they are making inferior products to get to market easier, but simply because the market won't bear tactical blades that take 60 hours and hundreds of dollars in materials. This isn't a sacrifice if no one is looking for that level of workmanship. It would be kind of like saying using 2x4s in house framing was a sacrifice because one could have used 2x6s. Yes, there are advantages, but people don't need it and most aren't going to pay extra for it.
 
I think one might sacrifice complexity and detail in order to mainatin a certain price point, but sacrificing quality toward the same end is essentially shooting yourself in the foot. Your quality needs to meet or exceed your customer's expectations. I am not full time but I do supplement my income with knives and so consider myself to be operating at semi-professional level. Repeat customers make up approx. 30% of my business, and I would not get this if I relaxed on quality or consitency.
 
The unprofessional knifemaker versus the professional knifemaker… :)

Fill in the blanks.

The unprofessional knifemaker, ________,… while the proffesional knifemaker _______.

The unprofessional knifemaker, spends more time backtracking, fixing previous mistakes, redoing parts, spinning his wheels and trying to do his best,… while the professional knifemaker get’s it right the first time at a fraction of the cost and time.
 
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