progessing from diamond to waterstone?

C

CS1991

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Jul 9, 2015
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Hello everyone, my freehand sharpening set up has been lacking a good coarse stone for coarse work as well as lapping of my waterstones. Jason B. Recommended I get an atoma 400 for that on another thread I made and I have been planning to get that.

I have heard that when progressing from diamond to water stone that you need to use a waterstone around the same grit as the diamond to convert the scratch patterns. Im wondering if I would just be able to jump from the 400 atoma to a 1k water stone without problems. Any info on this is appreciated.

Also, for people with chosera experience, would you recommend the 800 or 1k to follow the 3k? My no name brand 1k is wearing quick and will need replacement soon. Thanks
 
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I would recommend the 800 Naniwa Pro (new chosera), and yes it will work just fine to follow the Atoma 400. Personally, I would probably recommend the 400 if you already have the 3000, Naniwa Pro stones are smoother than most other stones and the 400, to me, is more like a fast 1k. The 3000 is also a fast cutting medium fine stone and can easily remove the 400 scratches on all but the hardest/wear resistant of steels.

The Naniwa Pro stones are not like other ceramic stones though so they actually lap fairly well with just a standard leveling stone, 220 grit 6x2 grooved stone that runs about $20.

If you went that route then I would say get the Atoma 140 because it will allow faster metal removal. It's also no problem for the Naniwa Pro 400 to remove the 140 scratches. This would simplify your kit allowing you to use the leveling stone, 400, and 3000 grit stones for the majority of your sharpening needs while keeping the 140 diamond plate and your "cheap 1k" for more demanding tasks.
 
Jason B. said:
I would recommend the 800 Naniwa Pro (new chosera), and yes it will work just fine to follow the Atoma 400. Personally, I would probably recommend the 400 if you already have the 3000, Naniwa Pro stones are smoother than most other stones and the 400, to me, is more like a fast 1k. The 3000 is also a fast cutting medium fine stone and can easily remove the 400 scratches on all but the hardest/wear resistant of steels.

The Naniwa Pro stones are not like other ceramic stones though so they actually lap fairly well with just a standard leveling stone, 220 grit 6x2 grooved stone that runs about $20.

If you went that route then I would say get the Atoma 140 because it will allow faster metal removal. It's also no problem for the Naniwa Pro 400 to remove the 140 scratches. This would simplify your kit allowing you to use the leveling stone, 400, and 3000 grit stones for the majority of your sharpening needs while keeping the 140 diamond plate and your "cheap 1k" for more demanding tasks.
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Jason, I appreciate the info. You previously recommended a 3k chosera to me and its an amazing stone.
 
How would the atoma 140 work as far as lapping 800-3k stones? Would it affect the performance of the water stones? I feel like i would appreciate the extra aggression for reprofiling
 
It's no issue, it just laps faster. At most you will notice a small scratch pattern in the 3k stone but it poses no problem.
 
I use this set: Atoma 400, Shapton 1000, 2000, 5000.

I've never been comfortable at using very coarse diamond stones, the Atoma 400 gives me a better angle control. I don't feel there is a too big gap between Atoma 400 and Shapton 1000. It doesn't take so long to remove the scratches left by the diamond stone with the 1000 waterstone.

Take in count that i don't use and therefore sharpen very abrasion resistant steels which can change the problem data.

dantzk.
 
That is another very good set of stones and a good approach. I have a specific need for very coarse stones but for most sharpening tasks I do like to stay with a finer coarse stone, a Shapton Glass 500 or Shapton Pro 1000 get's a lot of use at my sharpening bench. There will always be that time when a very coarse stone is needed but you can get a lot done with a 1000 grit stone until that time comes.

The Shaptons are a different animal from the Chosera though, the 1000 Shapton Pro is closer to a 800 Chosera, it's a coarse 1000 grit stone that eats metal very fast. Even compared to a Chosera 400 its fast, the Chosera 400 shows it's true coarseness with softer carbon and basic stainless steels along with Traditional Japanese cutlery. It will smoke the SP1000 in that arena but as the steel gets harder and more wear resistant the Chosera 400 starts slowing down while the Shapton doesn't flinch and keeps on trucking.

The stones are also graded under different grit systems which can make stone choices somewhat confusing between the two. The Naniwa stone uses the older JIS standard which puts the grit rating on a finer scale where the Shapton use the Mesh system that put's everything on the coarser side of the scale. A Naniwa 1000 is closer to a 1200 grit while a Shapton 1000 is closer to 800 grit. To further confuse things the Shapton Pro line is formulated for both carbon and stainless steels depending on which stones you pick, though some stones stand out in performance with carbon and stainless it's not always that obvious throughout the line.
 
I profile almost every edge with the 140 Atoma. I lap all my stones with it. Above 2K I condition the surface with the 400 Atoma.

After profiling with the 140, I go to the Nubatama 500/1200 grit, which works very quickly to step up to a 2K Shapton.
 
Jason B. said:
That is another very good set of stones and a good approach. I have a specific need for very coarse stones but for most sharpening tasks I do like to stay with a finer coarse stone, a Shapton Glass 500 or Shapton Pro 1000 get's a lot of use at my sharpening bench. There will always be that time when a very coarse stone is needed but you can get a lot done with a 1000 grit stone until that time comes.
Click to expand...

Thanks Jason for this reply, this confirms my choice. It happens i need very coarse stones to reprofile some scandi grind knives which come with a convex bevel. The Atoma 400 works well but i look for something faster.
I need your expertise.

Atoma 140? I'm not comfortable with diamond plates, scandi grinds need some pressure to flatten them and i fear to destroy the plate by ripping off the diamonds.

Shapton Pro 120 or 220? If they work as well as the higher grits i would be happy but what stone could i use to flatten them? I doubt the Atoma 400 i use for the 1000, 2000 and 5000 would work.

An other option would be the Naniwa 120 or 220 with the same question above.

What do you think? Your suggestions are welcome. Thanks.

dantzk.
 
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