Proof marks.

Howard Wallace

Howard Wallace

.
Moderator
Joined
Feb 23, 1999
Messages
4,855
It is my understanding (from one of Tom’s earlier posts) that European gun barrels used to be “proof” tested prior to sale by subjecting them to certain stresses. Then those barrels that passed were stamped with a “proof” mark and could be sold.

Perhaps HI could institute a similar system. A young strong lad could be hired by BirGorkha as a proof tester. When the knife was complete but before final finishing the maker would have to submit the blade to the proof tester. He could subject the knife to some tests designed to weed out the most frequent types of failures. If the knife passed only then would the proof tester’s mark be applied. The knife could then be sold as an HI product.

The proof mark could be the HI symbols, or it could be another distinctive mark. The HI symbols would be a good choice, but I’m not sure if the current process for putting them on can be done on a cold blade.
 
Great idea, though.

The proof marks placed on gun barrels each relate to a particular test - black powder proof (firing with a double charge of black powder), nitro proof(firing with a double charge of smokeless powder), view (visual inspection of bore & action) and so forth. If the practice is ever revived at BirGhorka, I think it'd be a good idea to have a similar system - one mark for a flex test, another for a cutting test, & so on.
 
A young but not too young lad would be a good. With something like the Kumar Kobra he wouldn't need to be too robust, but with something like the 25" AK or those really thick ones someone custom ordered he would have to have a lot of muscle to test them out for a "proof mark". I must admit I haven't had one let me down yet.
Some companies proof test and that's nice, but I kind of like to do that myself. I couldn't wait to see how well the 25" AK would tear things up!!! These khukuris may not be proof tested, but I would stack one up against any other knife being turned out by factories or custom makers!
 
I guess if we all seat down some where and think real hard we can all think of a reason to stamp another mark on the Khuks. Nobody will have to worry about getting the shine messed up. There won't be any place to shine. Just make it stamp hell out of it and send it on but, talk about ugly. They have enough marks on them now. The shop seems to be back close to normal, so lets not stir crap where there isn't any.
 
Pappy, we had a tang tester for awhile after Dasein when tangs like to fail. After he tested 800 or 1000 and couldn't break one he went back to polishing knives.
 
That is my whole point Uncle Bill. I can think of no knife tthat can't be broken if abused enough.

I commend you for the guarantee that you have on these knives, and your lack of arguement in replaceing them. However, I feel that there are people on this forum that think they can treat these knives like they were a Sherman tank, and expect you to gladly replace it when it won't take that kind of abuse.

A few days ago, (just be fore my 20" Siru. arrived) I spent a whole day cutting up three Pine trees I had to cut down, a lot of Mesquite, and scrap lumber including a couple of pallets made of gum wood. The burning was done as things were cut just to keep the fire from getting out of hand.
The point of all this is. I didn't use an axe once. On the lighter stuff the BAS, 15 and 18 inch Sirupati did all of the work. when it cane to the heavy stuff the AK went to work. Any of these knives, I am sure after seeing how they will work, would have done harder work than I pushed them through. I felt there was only one choice when it came to breaking up those pallets, the AK got the job done without damage. If it had not been available I would have went and got an axe. I see no reason to abuse one of these Khuks just because it will be replaced if broken.

I know that once in a while there will be a knife that will break. but as you point out, that young mans testing didn't break one in 800 to 1000, I would be ashamed to admit that I was stupid enough to abuse the knife I love and broke it. I would not send it back for replacement. I would buy a repplacement and keep my mouth shut. Just my opion. But, I have worked my knives enough now that I know what feels comfortable to me. If it doesn't feel right get a bigger blade. :) :)
 
When things are running smoothly at BirGorkha we get so few failures it's really not a consideration. Before the Maoists came on strong we would get maybe 6 or 8 failures a year, most tang failures due to Dasein hurry up. I'd rather have no failures at all but that number is easy enough to live with and I think we'll get there again if Pala can get moved, insulated and isolated.
 
I respectfully submit that the knives take on more value to the customer if they are proof tested prior to shipping. A defective knife may fail in normal usage, such as the usage that Pappy describes. It is not necessary to go to extraordinary lengths to break a defective knife. On the other hand a khukuri that meets HI’s usual standards is extremely difficult to break even with abusive usage. I will agree that there are some things I would not ask even a well made knife to do. For instance, I would not do the type of prying with a kobra that I would with an AK.

Even though a proof tester may not find many, or any, defective blades, nevertheless his work adds value to the product. The customers can have a higher confidence in the blades if they know this testing has been done. Many customers will be reluctant to test and mar a beautifully finished HI blade. If the testing were done prior to final finishing it would leave no marks, and the customer would rest easier knowing that there was little probability of a hidden flaw in the blade. While HI business processes may be able to live with a few failures, the value of the product will be less if the customers are aware of, and concerned about, failures.

I tried to indicate in my first post that no additional marks would be necessary on the blade. The HI symbols are there already and could also serve as proof marks. I am advocating a process improvement rather than a change in appearance of the product.

I think a proof tester should be a high status position at BirGorkha. The job is important, and the tester must take pride in his work in order to test the 1001rst blade well after the first 1000 have passed with no problems. This tester should be a hurdle the kami’s must pass before selling any blade to BirGorkha.

Please pardon me if I appear pushy. I only address these issues because it seems there was some misunderstanding of my original post. I’m sure any misunderstandings are due to my lack of clarity in expressing myself, so this is my attempt to clarify.
 
Even if full time tester is not available, part time proof test for about two weeks before Dasein, the most critical period for quality in a year, will save HI a lot of bucks.

Here's my idea inspired by ancient katana "ara dameshi (rough / tough test". One of the whole abuse test, there was a lateral stress test where the tester beated the katana on its flat side to the surface of water about ten times with his whole strength. There were, IMO, two good points. One, the target wholly contacts the blade surface. If done adequately, the test will not miss any weak point of the blade. A hard target will need much more beatings to cover whole bevel. Two, water doesn't leave any scratch on the blade at any strength.

A short blade compared to a sword will spoil the impact, but I hope this idea inspires more knowledgeable people than I.
 
..Hopefully HI can skip some of the other traditional tests, such as corpse cutting...? I'll stick with the kami's word and the blessings of their Hindu GOds and Goddesses...

I think that certain tests would be appropriate for some Khuks but not others. I would expect my 18" AK to eat a piece of dry cow leg bone for lunch, but I would not ask my slimmer profiled 21" GS to do the same. There is tool specialization in the Khuk world after all.

--Keith
 
It's always a case of the right tool for the right job. The reason we stopped making the 30 inch kobra was because people tried to use it like a khukuri and it was really a sword that looked like a khukuri. The kamis predicted this would happen and it did.
 
What stopped the testing last time was manpower shortage. Bura figured it was better to use the tester to help make much needed knives. Bura looks at things differently than most. Remember when he told me I was wasting my time when I was checking his blades.
 
I sorta back Pappy up on this one...not that I think Howard doesn't have a point. I would not believe a proof mark on a Khukuri. It just wouldn't convince me. I think with the factory running normal failure would not be a factor.

It's funny British proof marks were used as an example. I thought they were rather conservative in their testing and demands.

munk
 
Ferrous Wheel, "corpse cutting" test sounds fit rather Western way than Eastern, by helping it return to dust....

Uncle Bill, I love Bura's story. What he says, what he performs just make me think of master Chiun the incredible from Shinanju!
"Perfection is the road, not the destination"
 
W.F: Test cutting corpse - yes, let it return to the dust of time.

I was merely joking,and i will make sure in the futire to add "Hee Hee" (simulated laugh) after my dry or sarcastic humor comments.

Later,

Keith
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top