Proper Batoning

jimh0220

jimh0220

Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
3,010
Would someone clarify the technique. I have seen repeated posts cocerning broken handles from batoning, assuring that x knife is full tang so it can baton, and variiousother posts that seem to confuse me if I am properly batoning.

From what I understand, it seems rather simple: obtain wood to be split, obtain fixed blade knife with blade longer than wood diameter, obtain smaller piece of wood - heretofore to be known as baton.
Place log to split on end, place blade on top of loge, held perpendicular to log surface, with blade edge resting on log. Hold baton and strike SPINE of knife, repeatedly if necessary, until wood splits or splitting is found to be impossibile, in which case you should have either used a bigger knife, or smaller wood.

Simple, right?

So how do you break a handle, unless you are STRIKING the handle? Also, though we all love and demand that only a full tang can baton, I regularly baton with a Mora Clipper with a..... 1/3 tang. Guess what, wood splits, knife still works, has a handle strong as ever!


What am I missing y'all?
 
Probably the most important point is to make sure the handle is level with the blade or slightly above it. If you have the handle sitting below the blade, this will cause a pivot point for the force (exerted by the batton) within the handle.

IMO a knife should be tapped through the wood, not wallopped through it :thumbup:



Kind regards
Mick
 
Yes, tap it. As much as possible, let the tool do the work.
The better the blade geometry is for splitting, the easier it will be to baton. The worse it is, the harder you'll have to tap;)
 
As a side note, I've seen pictures of broken Mora's and they are not a knife I'd choose to baton or do anythin else demanding with.
 
jimh0220 said:
I have seen repeated posts cocerning broken handles from batoning
Click to expand...

Not all knives that say they are full tang are suitable - the best way to check is to ask on these forums. With the weaker knives like your 1/3 tang Mora you need to baton more carefully with a tap-tap-tap, but with some good strong knives you wont break 'em no matter how hard you pound 'em. I like my Becker BK-7 or BK-9 for belting hard with a baton - they are a proper full tang design and I can't see either breaking.

What you described sounds like a reasonable description of the process.
 
Well, I've never actually batoned anything, but I've seen a few YouTube videos that left me questioning why people put so much downward force on the handle. Between the log on the blade, and the baton hitting away at the tip, you've pretty much got all the energy being transfered over to the handle side of the blade. I've seen a lot of people putting lots of force on it, trying to get the blade to split down the log with the edge parallel to the ground; I think that puts a lot of undo stress on the handle. If instead you struck the tip downard, and then dragged it back up to get the knife parallel to the ground and kind of "rocked" the edge back and forth like this, you won't be asking the blade to cut as much wood at a time, and won't be imparting as much stress on the handle.

That's all I've really kept in mind to try when I eventually try it. It's just something I've seen that looks like it makes it a lot more likely to break a knife handle. When you really think of the physics involved, it's no wonder people snap the handles pressing down on them, when you're essentially creating a fulcrum and lever between the blade and the log you're splitting into; so you're basically slamming down on a lever that you're trying to bare down on the other end of. Since most of the time the handle end of the lever is going to be shorter, you're putting a lot more energy into the handle side of it than you would think; that's how levers work. That's why shovels work so great, and you can also snap the head off one with what you thought was only a little bit of force.

Anyway, that's just my theory on it, but since I've never really done it I'll just say that it's more than likely I'm wrong. It's just something I've noticed and have wanted to bring up... Perfect opportunity.
 
Ive absolutely belted my recon scout through twisted gnarly hardwood. Didn't even dull the edge. I think that most of the force is on the sides of blade from being pinched by the wood.
 
KennyB said:
Well, I've never actually batoned anything, but I've seen a few YouTube videos that left me questioning why people put so much downward force on the handle. Between the log on the blade, and the baton hitting away at the tip, you've pretty much got all the energy being transfered over to the handle side of the blade. I've seen a lot of people putting lots of force on it, trying to get the blade to split down the log with the edge parallel to the ground; I think that puts a lot of undo stress on the handle. If instead you struck the tip downard, and then dragged it back up to get the knife parallel to the ground and kind of "rocked" the edge back and forth like this, you won't be asking the blade to cut as much wood at a time, and won't be imparting as much stress on the handle.

That's all I've really kept in mind to try when I eventually try it. It's just something I've seen that looks like it makes it a lot more likely to break a knife handle. When you really think of the physics involved, it's no wonder people snap the handles pressing down on them, when you're essentially creating a fulcrum and lever between the blade and the log you're splitting into; so you're basically slamming down on a lever that you're trying to bare down on the other end of. Since most of the time the handle end of the lever is going to be shorter, you're putting a lot more energy into the handle side of it than you would think; that's how levers work. That's why shovels work so great, and you can also snap the head off one with what you thought was only a little bit of force.

Anyway, that's just my theory on it, but since I've never really done it I'll just say that it's more than likely I'm wrong. It's just something I've noticed and have wanted to bring up... Perfect opportunity.
Click to expand...
Well said
 
As I understand it, there is a particular hazard to watch out for:

Imagine the knife embedded in the log, titled at an angle with the tip up. It's no surprise that smacking the tip will put a lot of force at the base of the blade, but an extra danger comes in if the handle of the knife is also touching the log; even just a little friction between the handle and the log is bad. If the friction inhibits the handle from tilting back towards level when the tip is struck, then the forces applied to the base of the blade will be much more severe.

Bark river, I think, had a nice web page explaining this issue. Even good knives can be snapped this way.

Take care to keep the handle higher than the tip, and also keep the handle away from the wood you are splitting. I think a good rule of thumb is not to try to split anything thicker than half the blade length.

FWIW, you can also use your knife to just start a split, and then remove the knife blade and insert a wooden wedge in its place. I was surprised at how well this works; the wedge doesn't have to be anything fancy, pretty much whatever you can fit in the space will work. As the split gets bigger, use bigger wedges, until finally you can fit a thumb-sized piece in there. Even a perfectly round stick works fine as a wedge, so long as it's tough enough to pound on.
 
I too regularly baton moras with no ill effects... I think most of the broken tang pics are the reuslt of overzealous batoning... I may baton kindling or a fire board with my mora.. but I'm not going to build a log cabin with it... some folks just get off on seeing how big and hard a piece of wood they can split with there knife..
Also as mick pointed out you must keep the handle level with the blade.. if it starteto lag behind you are more likely to have a break
 
Batoning , why not , as long as you use the right kind of baton ,
you know , the ones that have a wedge shaped steel head at one end .

1234,,,,,:D;):D
 
Probably the most important point is to make sure the handle is level with the blade or slightly above it.
Click to expand...

This is very sound advice , and one I constantly follow. Another thing is if I see a knot , I try to go around it , or don't even bother. I find my knife jams , edge suffers , and energy expended is wasted. I just grab a better piece if it's too tough.
 
I regularly baton blades, full tang or half, or even 1/3. Folders, too. Just make sure they aren't locked. (And use smaller wood)

I just make sure the blade tip and handle are close are in-line, and pound through the wood. Haven't broken a blade batoning yet. :thumbup:
 
I just did some batoning with my mini grip yesterday. I kept it locked, but I don't whale on the blade with the baton, so the forces involved are pretty minimal. I generally try to keep it level, and I usually just pinch the handle between two fingers, so its kind of self limiting with the amount of force I'm putting on the lock; negative force acting against the lock will try and raise the handle, which will slide out of my grip before the lock breaks. No blade play, and I don't consider it abuse when you go slowly and lightly through a relatively thin (no more than half blade length) straight grain piece of wood.
 
Gadgetaholic said:
Not all knives that say they are full tang are suitable - the best way to check is to ask on these forums. With the weaker knives like your 1/3 tang Mora you need to baton more carefully with a tap-tap-tap, but with some good strong knives you wont break 'em no matter how hard you pound 'em. I like my Becker BK-7 or BK-9 for belting hard with a baton - they are a proper full tang design and I can't see either breaking.

What you described sounds like a reasonable description of the process.
Click to expand...

Full tang vs partial matters for some things, but if you hit a handle batoning, aren't you hitting the part that ain't doin' the splittin? otherwise, my Mora and your BK9 are definitely not gonna split the same wood, unless it's kindling.

I'm also not splitting the same size wood with a hatchet as I would with a maul and wedge. Either way, I ain't hitting the handles.
 
You can baton with a blade smaller than the diameter of the wood-I do it with my HEST all the time-the main point is to SPLIT the wood, you only have to go far enough to peel it apart with your hands, or pry with the blade-I find a 3 inch 3 16ths blade sufficient for the job, though it may not be the most expedient. I think proper technique includes orienting the blade and the force of the baton parallel with the grain of the wood, and planning the split so that you avoid knots and resinous deposits, or making use of dry cracks already there. If you take these basic steps it's a very easy technique that will not damage your tool.
 
One other ting I didn't see mentioned is that you don't have to split it down the middle... take a small bite on the edge if the wood is really hard or bigger than the knife. Something I learned last weekend and it worked well.

Ski
 
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