I have a relatively new Commander, and when I don't want to ruin my pants pocket or slash the person behind me, I flip it open with the snap of my wrist. Is this harmful to the internal parts of the knife???? A clown at a local retail knife shop scolded me when I snapped open a Benchmade axis lock.
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Proper Emerson opening techniques
- Thread starter FrankS
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Welcome to the forums! You'll hear a bunch of different opinions as to "snapping" open knives being good or bad for them. As to snapping open knives that don't actually belong to you yet, it's generally thought to be bad etiquette. Not a flame, just a partial answer as to why you may have gotten the hairy eyeball from the guy at the shop. Good luck-
Mike
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"Never give a sword to a man who can't dance" (Celtic Proverb)
AKTI# A000107
Mike
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"Never give a sword to a man who can't dance" (Celtic Proverb)
AKTI# A000107
SALTY
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"Snapping" or flipping a knife open puts immensly more stress on parts than "normal opening."
When a mass is in motion and impacts resistance, the energy has to go somewhere. It is "absorbed" by something; something like the stop pin, blade and related knife parts.
Stand on a scale then hop up and down, look at where the "energy meter" goes. Then jump higher and higher and look at where the energy meter (scale indicater) goes. You weigh the same but the stress on the scale increases.
This is why floors and decks on ships are designed for "static load" and "live load" with the design criteria for live load being much higher.
Depending on the lock type, different parts will be affected differently. I am no engineer but can tell you, perhaps not as eloquently, that moving stuff harder and faster hurts parts more.
When a mass is in motion and impacts resistance, the energy has to go somewhere. It is "absorbed" by something; something like the stop pin, blade and related knife parts.
Stand on a scale then hop up and down, look at where the "energy meter" goes. Then jump higher and higher and look at where the energy meter (scale indicater) goes. You weigh the same but the stress on the scale increases.
This is why floors and decks on ships are designed for "static load" and "live load" with the design criteria for live load being much higher.
Depending on the lock type, different parts will be affected differently. I am no engineer but can tell you, perhaps not as eloquently, that moving stuff harder and faster hurts parts more.
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I agree, but I also have to say that I think whatever Ernie is using is working like a charm because Waving has to be at least as hard as snapping and the knife was designed to do that and has worked flawlessly.
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Don -
I think the wave creates less inertia on the blade than "snapping" does. The wave itself is in contact with your pocket for the majority of the opening action (even if it is only for a split second). I would assume there would be some energy transfer during this time, as the kinetic act of dragging the knife out puts the knife (and at least in my case) your hand in contact with your leg. When the hook of the wave locks with the lining of your pocket, the inertia from the pull is smoothly transferred to the blade via the pivot. It's like a small moment arm. With a "snap" opening, there is no smooth transfer - no moment arm to transfer stress. All the energy from the wrist is transferred to the knife, rather than having some bleed off into you.
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Of course, that's just MY opinion - I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller
I think the wave creates less inertia on the blade than "snapping" does. The wave itself is in contact with your pocket for the majority of the opening action (even if it is only for a split second). I would assume there would be some energy transfer during this time, as the kinetic act of dragging the knife out puts the knife (and at least in my case) your hand in contact with your leg. When the hook of the wave locks with the lining of your pocket, the inertia from the pull is smoothly transferred to the blade via the pivot. It's like a small moment arm. With a "snap" opening, there is no smooth transfer - no moment arm to transfer stress. All the energy from the wrist is transferred to the knife, rather than having some bleed off into you.
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Of course, that's just MY opinion - I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller
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Chris,
I'm inclined to agree...yet...I don't know!
I could show you how to inertia pop most folders, especially a Commander.
Maybe I will send you that. Works for sneaky stuff.
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"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
Some of my Knives and other neat things
I'm inclined to agree...yet...I don't know!
I could show you how to inertia pop most folders, especially a Commander.
Maybe I will send you that. Works for sneaky stuff.
------------------
"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
Some of my Knives and other neat things
The physics of your post certainly make sense! I emailed both Emerson and Benchmade on this subject, and Benchmade has the following to say:
The flipping open of the axis knife doesn't seem to be a problem but with the linerlock (AFCK) this tends to jam the lock into the ramp of the blade and wears it prematurely.
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Yeah,
Send it to me to please, don. I can do it, but not reliably.
dion
Send it to me to please, don. I can do it, but not reliably.
dion
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- Dec 6, 1999
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- 667
How about the thumb disk? Its very smooth opening. I find I can pop it out with the tip of my index finger to.
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Chris, Dion, YA BASTIDS! You're going to take me for broke!
I already have something lined up for Chris by prior arrangement a couple weeks ago, but I can't be sending this stuff all over!!!
I can tell you how to do it though.
Hold your Commander in your hand. Anchor the knife in your hand by using the pocket clip as the anchor for your fingertips.
That hand will be palm towards the floor, the spine of the knife will likewise be oriented to the floor.
You can look down and see the back of your hand.
Place the palm of your off hand on the back of the hand holding the knife.
The front of the knife should stick out of your knife hand a tiny bit and the off hand will cover this.
In an instant...
Drop the knife hand a mere 3 or 4 inches, bring it back up hard and orient the hand to where the blade will release...you bring your knife hand up hard into the stationary and waiting palm of the off hand which acts as a brake for the other hand in motion.
The blade will open by inertia.
This is a slap opening, using a slap check on your own hand, the first time I saw it was Dan Inosanto in "Sharky's Machine" open up an Imada Keibo Baton by bringing the closed baton up and then using his off hand to slap check the forearm of the baton hand.
Then, Imada had this in his book, "The Advanced BaliSong Manual," along with a small section on his baton, which was better than an ASP and ASP drove him out of business from what I understand. He was making an excellent telescoping baton before ASP was...
And yes, you can slap check to open an ASP, I have taught this as a "Hidden/Startle Technique" to some friends who are in Law Enforcement and it makes people back down really quick because 21 to 26 inches of tubular steel come out of nowhere.
If you have to hit them, you are instantly chambered for a backhand [#2 in the Filipino Arts] Strike and if they rush you and you cannot open the baton, you simply use the butt of it to smash them.
Slap checking the ASP Baton, can be done the same way, but your off hand contacts the area of the forearm near the inside of the elbow joint.
------------------
"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
Some of my Knives and other neat things
I already have something lined up for Chris by prior arrangement a couple weeks ago, but I can't be sending this stuff all over!!!
I can tell you how to do it though.
Hold your Commander in your hand. Anchor the knife in your hand by using the pocket clip as the anchor for your fingertips.
That hand will be palm towards the floor, the spine of the knife will likewise be oriented to the floor.
You can look down and see the back of your hand.
Place the palm of your off hand on the back of the hand holding the knife.
The front of the knife should stick out of your knife hand a tiny bit and the off hand will cover this.
In an instant...
Drop the knife hand a mere 3 or 4 inches, bring it back up hard and orient the hand to where the blade will release...you bring your knife hand up hard into the stationary and waiting palm of the off hand which acts as a brake for the other hand in motion.
The blade will open by inertia.
This is a slap opening, using a slap check on your own hand, the first time I saw it was Dan Inosanto in "Sharky's Machine" open up an Imada Keibo Baton by bringing the closed baton up and then using his off hand to slap check the forearm of the baton hand.
Then, Imada had this in his book, "The Advanced BaliSong Manual," along with a small section on his baton, which was better than an ASP and ASP drove him out of business from what I understand. He was making an excellent telescoping baton before ASP was...
And yes, you can slap check to open an ASP, I have taught this as a "Hidden/Startle Technique" to some friends who are in Law Enforcement and it makes people back down really quick because 21 to 26 inches of tubular steel come out of nowhere.
If you have to hit them, you are instantly chambered for a backhand [#2 in the Filipino Arts] Strike and if they rush you and you cannot open the baton, you simply use the butt of it to smash them.
Slap checking the ASP Baton, can be done the same way, but your off hand contacts the area of the forearm near the inside of the elbow joint.
------------------
"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
Some of my Knives and other neat things
I have seen Don use the slap opening technique on me. It works very well. One second he had nothing in his hand, the next 1/2 sec later their is a knife pointed at my throat.
If you want to surprise someone, this opening will do it.
I don't know how well it works with the trainer cause we did not use it. Don was showing the technique on his newest toy, a crawford wortac.
[This message has been edited by memnoch (edited 05-23-2001).]
[This message has been edited by memnoch (edited 05-23-2001).]
If you want to surprise someone, this opening will do it.
I don't know how well it works with the trainer cause we did not use it. Don was showing the technique on his newest toy, a crawford wortac.
[This message has been edited by memnoch (edited 05-23-2001).]
[This message has been edited by memnoch (edited 05-23-2001).]
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Bastid.
I hope you get sentenced to Massachussets.
[This message has been edited by Don Rearic (edited 05-23-2001).]
I hope you get sentenced to Massachussets.
[This message has been edited by Don Rearic (edited 05-23-2001).]
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Hey,
That's one cool trick. Thanks. That's all i thought you meant in the first place when you said "send". I was thinking email. I know broke, and don't wish it on any one else.
Again, neat trick.
dion
That's one cool trick. Thanks. That's all i thought you meant in the first place when you said "send". I was thinking email. I know broke, and don't wish it on any one else.
dion
All,
Here is the definitive word from Derek Russell, Emerson's sales manager.....
Hi Frank,
The inertial opening is a bit hard on the knives. I will say though that I have 6 and 7 year old knives that have been opened in that fashion 1000's of times with more or less no ill effects. I would not be too concerned with it. We build knives to use and use hard.
If there is anything else I might assist you with, please let me know.
Take care,
Derek Russell
Sales Manager
Emerson Knives
www.emersonknives.com