Prove your spec

[Lorien]

I'm putting this question out there, as the topic has arisen amongst other threads, all on its own because I think it's integral to the acquisition of handmade/custom knives.

Most of us probably buy handmade/custom knives partly because of trust; we trust in the integrity of the blade due to the extra care taken by the maker, we trust in the longevity of the 'value' of the knife, and we trust in the materials selected and that they are what the maker says they are. Trust is a word that often pops up when we talk custom/handmade knives.

Many makers stamp or otherwise mark their blades with the material used, and/or provide a certificate of authenticity. Some may even go so far as to include a copy of their receipt from their supplier showing the materials as they purchased them.

So this question is mostly for makers.
How do you ensure that your customers have complete faith in the fact that they are getting what you tell them you're getting? How do you have complete faith in your suppliers?

 

[Patrickknives]

I have not marked my blades with the type of steel but have given it some thought. That would provide a historical referance but you could mark the steel anything. The primary issue with materials would be the steel, I buy only from larger suppliers who deal direct in steel and try to buy only processed steel that is labeled by the steel factory. see below.

I can see your point if I were to buy a bar of steel that is only marked by the seller, they may have made a mistake in their own inventory. I have not provided reciepts in the past but if asked I would, the only problem is I have made alot of purchases and could produce any reciept that I wanted, it really comes down to trust and having a knowledgable buyer.

The other side of that is the heat treat, you can get good steel but if the HT is not right it may not perform any better than a production knife.


I do alot of destructive testing and cutting tests, first with prototype knives, second pieces of steel that go through the same heat treat process (every batch), third with an actual blade ( I usually make more than one and plan to destroy one), and last through feedback from clients most important friends who have my knives (all that I can think of).

Good question and has given me food for thought.

 

[Jack O'Neill]

Lorien, the answer is not to difficult . 1st . you don't deal with a maker who does not guaranty his work with a full refund as long as the knife was used properly as it was designed for . 2nd , therefore trust goes both ways . The last thing a maker needs is bad comments . Take a chance , you do with your bikes , the makers workmanship will tell you all you need to know . Beware of those that buy kits knives and then mark them as a maker. They will not refund your investment , just as the factory will not fix the bike you buy and abuse .

 

[Kevin Jones]

From a collectors standpoint, if I feel I have to question or have the maker prove his specs., then it's a good indication that I shouldn't be buying from him.

 

[Ed Caffrey]

Establishing honesty and integrity. Neither of which is quick or easy. The custom knife world is very open, and very self-policing. Something I stress to my students is this..... A good reputation is the most difficult thing to achieve, and the easiest thing to loose. It must be guarded closely, and therefore EVERYTHING that goes out your door MUST be the very best it can possibly be.

If something does go wrong, as is prone to happen with anything touched by human hands, then it must be made right with the client. If that means a repair, then a repair it is, if that means a refund, then a refund it is. Anyone who believes that nothing will ever go wrong has either not been in the business very long, or is fooling themselves.

As for myself, I purchase base materials, including steel, only from sources I completely trust, and more often than not I ask for a spec. sheet on the steel. The issue of integrity is also why I am fanatical about sole authorship. To my mind, any time a maker puts a blade in a box, sends it off to someone else for something invisible, like heat treating, there is no way to tell what actually happened to that blade between the time it left his/her mailbox, and when it returned. I've been to a number of commercial heat treaters and have seen how they process the blades sent to them......as many at a time as possible. I'm not dogging them, or anyone who uses commercial heat treaters, but its certainly not worth taking a chance with my reputation.

Finally, the road goes both ways. I have seen knifemakers who went lax, and are no longer knifemakers, likewise I have seen knife buyers who in one way or another screwed over knifemakers, and are now more or less "black listed" with most makers...meaning that nobody will sell them a knife.... back to reputation and integrity.

 

[tntbegg]

The venerable Mr.Caffrey has nailed it! Reputation. Integrity. Trust. Yours and your suppliers.

 

[Blues]

Well said, Ed, from both sides of the counter. :thumbup:

 

[B . Buxton]

Kevin and Ed both hit the nail on the head. There's a great deal of pride that goes into custom making knives or anything custom made for that matter, and if a maker is willing to cut corners and skimp on any part of it, then those makers should be avoided whole heartedly. Ed said it, a reputation is a difficult thing to achieve, and the easiest thing to loose.


Bill

 

[Keith Montgomery]

I just deal with makers that I have complete trust in. It has never occurred to me to doubt that I am getting exactly what the maker says I'm getting.

 

[Lorien]

Peter Marzitelli made me a couple of bowie knives a little while back, and included with them a bandaid and a certification of materials used etc.

While I entirely trust Peter, as a 20+ year veteran of the custom knife business, I was very impressed by his attention to detail and concern about my satisfaction. He really proved to me that he takes his job seriously by providing a certificate of authenticity with the knives he makes by hand.

To be honest, I would never have thought to ask him for this information, as we had discussed in depth the materials options etc. but I was pleased he provided me with it. Especially if there were ever a time when I'd want to sell it, (not that that time will ever come).

I thought it was a really nice touch. Shows how a knife maker can look after their clientele's interests.

 

[Hmathews]

We use to provide a document on each knife with a list of features and materials along with instructions for cleaning and care. It had our address and instructions to return it to us and we would resharpen it at any time for the cost of return postage. Nearly every customer said that they didn't need it. Go figure. We do put the type of steel on the blade and frankly never really thought that there would be any question as to whether we were being honest with the materials or construction. I doubt that if a maker or supplier was dishonest, he would mind falsifying any documentation he needed to back up what he did or sold.

Ed it sounds like you are "dogging them" to me, unless it means something different in Montana. I would agree though that it all comes down to trust, integrity and honesty. I would add verification. In any business I have been involved in, all orders were verified when they were received. If you ordered 2dozen hammers, when they came in they were counted. If you send knives out to be heat treated, you trust the company, but you check behind them anyway. We both send blades out to Paul Bos and heat treat our own. We have never found one to be different than what we ordered. We might one day, but it hasn't happened yet. We still check them when they come in. We check our own too.

 

[Ed Caffrey]

I suspected if I used the example of sending out blades for heat treating that someone wouldn't like it. The reason that I included that I wasn't dogging anyone, was to emphasis that if that's what you want to do, that's fine, but MY reputation isn't worth the risk. Having personally seen the process, and watching 100+ blades go through at a time, and as many as 6 different people handling them during the process, its too much possibility for error, for me to trust. Maybe if I were a different type of knifemaker, making a much larger volume than I do, my attitude might be different, I just find more peace of mind doing it myself. I guess it goes back to the topic of trust....and I just don't trust it. Might just be that hardcore sole-authorship coming out too.

 

[Hmathews]

I was just yanking your chain a little Ed. If the process they use makes you uncomfortable you are right to not use it. It might make me uncomfortable if I saw it first hand too. It boils down to trusting the guys you do business with. There are many people that buy steel from a supplier that we had a problem with. We don't buy steel from them anymore because of problems we could not control and evidently they couldn't either. We are sending less and less out for heat treating because we like the full control doing it ourselves gives us, not because we have had a problem. It is not the supplier of the steel that has to guarantee the knife neither is it the company that heat treats the blade, if that part of the process is outsourced. It is the maker and he has to trust who he deals with in order to be comfortable with selling the knife.