Putting more kick on a kick

A

AreBeeBee

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Sep 3, 2013
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I have an old 4-blade camper-pattern folder for which the main blade sits a little too low in the well when closed — the nail-nick has become hard to get to. This is due, I'm sure, to wear on the tang (and/or spring) as they rub on each opening and closing. (The knife is 50+ years old, so there's been a lot of open/close.)

I think the most feasable fix would be to add a small amount of metal (perhaps a millimeter) to the kick on the main blade, thus raising the blade higher and bringing the nail-nick back into easy use when the knife is closed.

What's a good way to do this that doesn't involve arc-welding, heavy machinery, dry dock, rolling cranes, and other industrial tools that are far beyond a basement tinkerer with few mechanical skills?

In short, is there an easy fix?
 
You can use a punch and an anvil to move metal and make the kick larger.
Or, you can cut the handle down to expose the nail nick.
The blade is probably sitting low from the kick being filed, to keep the tip in the liners.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
You can use a punch and an anvil to move metal and make the kick larger.
Or, you can cut the handle down to expose the nail nick.
The blade is probably sitting low from the kick being filed, to keep the tip in the liners.
Click to expand...

The main blade is actually nearly full, as far as I can tell. But when closed, the backspring sits lower than the adjacent liners, so I'm blaming wear on the tang.

I tried lowering the blade that blocks the nail nick, but it's an old-style two-finger can opener, with one finger resting on the backspring when closed, like this (not my photo):

Camillus_scout_f1.jpg

source: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ity-Knives-Scout-Knives?p=9205479#post9205479

If I try the punch-and-anvil, do you just bang on it cold? Or heat it first?

I'd be leery of trying to heat it, as the scales might not survive, even if wrapped in wet cloth.
 
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I'd be wary of hammering on a hardened steel blade. That's a good way to cause a fracture.

If the blade isn't very hard it could work, but if it's really hard, an impact from a harder piece of steel could cause a chip or break.

And heating it enough to soften it would ruin the temper. And that's why welding won't work either.

It's difficult for me to give you advise regarding what you should do without seeing the actual knife.

One possibility is to install a small thumbstud in the blade to give you something to grab onto instead of using the nail nick.
 
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Could you create a small dot of JB Weld on the blade to raise it up just a touch???
(just backyard Barney think out loud)
 
Bill's suggested method, using a punch to effectively extend the kick, has been done before. Referred to as 'peening the kick', it's been discussed in the Traditional forum in particular, for the same reasons. Never heard or read of it needing heating to do it. On the kick & tang portions of the blade, it's likely been annealed somewhat anyway (softened for stamping the maker's mark). I don't think I'd worry about fracturing it, at all.

See the thread linked below (posts #31 and #33 are relevant and from those IN THE KNOW, and quoted below):

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/888677-GEC-73-Problem?

waynorth said:
One of the common repairs for a "striker", was to peen/cold forge the kick out a little, which raises the blade slightly. It can often be done with a punch. The kick is usually tempered back along with the tang, so it is softer than the rest of the blade. I've done it twice, and it is simple and works!
Click to expand...

Phil Gibbs said:
That was a common repair solution at Camillus.
If the problem was discovered prior to assembly, the area of the spring contacted by the kick would be "stretched" with a pointed punch instead.
Click to expand...


David
 
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Obsessed with Edges said:
Bill's suggested method, using a punch to effectively extend the kick, has been done before. Referred to as 'peening the kick', it's been discussed in the Traditional forum in particular, for the same reasons. Never heard or read of it needing heating to do it. On the kick & tang portions of the blade, it's likely been annealed somewhat anyway (softened for stamping the maker's mark). I don't think I'd worry about fracturing it, at all.

See the thread linked below (posts #31 and #33 are relevant and from those IN THE KNOW, and quoted below):

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/888677-GEC-73-Problem?

David
Click to expand...

Thanks, David, for the advice, and also from others. Interesting read in that thread.

I had thought of the JB Weld solution (also: putting on a dab of solder), but as I tend to close the blades one-handed, they do shut firmly. Although this particular knife has a snap far, far below what I understand GEC knives do, I expect it would soon loosen any add-on bit that, coming between the kick and spring, would have to take the full force of closing.

So I think I'll try a cold-peen on the kick and see what it does.

Thank you, one and all —
 
JB Weld would flake off immediately. Solder would require getting the blade pretty hot, and it will wear quickly.
Peening the tang, or relieving the handles is the way to go.
 
Well, at the price of putting some pretty ugly dings (center punch) into the kick area of a 4-line Camillus camper/utility knife.... The kick has been cold-peened, kicked up, and the nail nick is now accessible. The ugly is accepted by me as unavoidable because I really wanted that nail nick more usable. And in the end, I'm a user-collector not a museum-curator; every knife a user knife.

Thanks again for the help and suggestions.

Say, does such a thing exist as a punch with a convex face, rather than a flat or pointed one? Seems like there ought to be, and I'm thinking it might clean up the dings somewhat. (The question alone should tell you my experience with metal-working tools is nil.)
 
AreBeeBee said:
Well, at the price of putting some pretty ugly dings (center punch) into the kick area of a 4-line Camillus camper/utility knife.... The kick has been cold-peened, kicked up, and the nail nick is now accessible. The ugly is accepted by me as unavoidable because I really wanted that nail nick more usable. And in the end, I'm a user-collector not a museum-curator; every knife a user knife.

Thanks again for the help and suggestions.

Say, does such a thing exist as a punch with a convex face, rather than a flat or pointed one? Seems like there ought to be, and I'm thinking it might clean up the dings somewhat. (The question alone should tell you my experience with metal-working tools is nil.)
Click to expand...

If you wanted to round or convex the face of your punch a little bit, shaping it on some hard-backed wet/dry sandpaper should work. I'd recently purchased a set of punches (flat-faced), and cleaned up some rough milling marks on one or two of them, using such a method. I was using one of them to peen the brass pivot rivot on a Case Sod Buster knife to tighten it up a little, and the rough face on the punch was 'leaving it's mark' in the soft brass, which is why I decided to smooth & polish the punch face a little. I have a granite reference plate (2" x 10" x 12" or so), on which I placed a piece of wet/dry paper, and just scrubbed the faces of my punches until they were as smooth as I wanted. I did the same to the flat face of a ball-peen hammer I was also using. With a little creativity in the scrubbing motion, it wouldn't be hard to round off or convex a punch face this way. If lacking the granite block, any hard & flat surface like glass, or a flat bench hone, could be used instead for the backing under the paper.


David
 
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Obsessed with Edges said:
If you wanted to round or convex the face of your punch a little bit, shaping it on some hard-backed wet/dry sandpaper should work. I'd recently purchased a set of punches (flat-faced), and cleaned up some rough milling marks on one or two of them, using such a method. I was using one of them to peen the brass pivot rivot on a Case Sod Buster knife to tighten it up a little, and the rough face on the punch was 'leaving it's mark' in the soft brass, which is why I decided to smooth & polish the punch face a little. I have a granite reference plate (2" x 10" x 12" or so), on which I placed a piece of wet/dry paper, and just scrubbed the faces of my punches until they were as smooth as I wanted. I did the same to the flat face of a ball-peen hammer I was also using. With a little creativity in the scrubbing motion, it wouldn't be hard to round off or convex a punch face this way. If lacking the granite block, any hard & flat surface like glass, or a flat bench hone, could be used instead for the backing under the paper.

David
Click to expand...

Thanks again, David. I'll get a flat-face punch for the purpose — they aren't expensive — and work with it as you describe.

(Then again, this may amount to trying to smoothen a cratered surface with more cratering! But in fact, in planetary science, there's a point at which the surface of a planet or moon has been hit so many times it reaches saturation cratering — that is, each new impact crater destroys on average one old crater. A look at the Moon's southern highlands through a telescope will provide a local example.)
 
Glad the peening worked for you, AreBeeBee.
What I've done in the past to fix this problem is to wedge a little sliver of matchstick along the inside of the spring where the tang hits. Not as artful or permanent a solution, but it works. I have to replace it from time to time if the knife needs a good cleaning, but I've been hesitant to bang on some older knives.
 
r8shell said:
Glad the peening worked for you, AreBeeBee.
What I've done in the past to fix this problem is to wedge a little sliver of matchstick along the inside of the spring where the tang hits. Not as artful or permanent a solution, but it works. I have to replace it from time to time if the knife needs a good cleaning, but I've been hesitant to bang on some older knives.
Click to expand...

Good point. This particular knife came to me with its bail already removed and the bolster-hole refilled and ground/polished off smooth(ish). So there's no sense is which it's in original condition. I have another of the same make and model and age with its original bail, and if that ever develops the "low kick" problem, I'd use your approach for a long time before hammering on the thing. Same reason as you.
 
They make ball end punches. These work well for jobs like this.
 
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