Quality Assurance For CNC Knifes and Firearms

M

munk

Joined
Mar 22, 2002
Messages
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Quality control of manufactured products in the US has generally been good, at least for knives and firearms. Because of the computer, there are benefits we would not have otherwise. I personally believe that CNC manufacture at Smith and Wesson has improved the overall accuracy of the revolver line.

I got a Cold Steel knife not too long ago with a distinct uneven bevel for the edge. One side was less angled and very wide, one side was greater and deeper; live with it. It may have been a human doing the grind. I don't think it was part of the design.

Himalayan Imports has sold an awful lot of khukuris. They've been field tested for years. It bothers us when something goes wrong, an edge failure or even a mistake in the heat treat or edge bevel. On these scarce occasions Yangdu quickly makes good for the customer.

I've got to say this; I've been buying firearms for years. I sold them when I managed a gun store. I've seen a lot of them and a lot of them arrive in the box with something wrong. You know I'm talking about this because of the Stevens Single Shot Rifle I almost got for Christmas; it don't work. I have to send it back. This reminded me of all the firearms I've sent back. A lot. Again, One more time, Into the Breech, Valley of Death, Do it for the Gipper, let the UPS trucks roll; you can see them from Space. It's at least 10% with my own firearms, but I'm not a relevant statistical sample. But there you are.

I don't understand how Kamis squating in the dirt with a forge and hammer are doing better than the computers in air conditioned rooms in the US. I don't understand it.

I'm going to ask Dad; he was a Quality Assurance Engineer his entire life. The only thing I can think of is that a unit is easier to replace with another unit than bothering to fix anything. It either works or it doesn't and if it doesn't give the kid another box; there, the end one on the shelf to your right.


munk
 
Greetings: Munk

Those kamis are good at what they do in reference to making blades aren't they? I think that the fact that the kamis come out of some families with over 400 years of experience in hand forging blades has something to do with it. Really makes one appreciate what level of quality that we are getting when we buy a Himalayan Imports khukri! Right?

I get a really big grin on my face when I see members of this forum giving the kamis advice on how to improve their blades. After all, we have so much more experience than the kamis in the making of khukuris, right? He, He, He.

Reminds me of every spring when I put in a really big and really nice garden on my 4 acres with my Ford tractor. I just smile when my neighbors amble over and eye my garden and start giving me advice on how to improve it. He, He, He. No problem to me at all. I listen to all their suggestions and smile and be real agreeable and go ahead and do my garden just like I want to do it. He, He, He. My great granddad and my granddad were farmers and ranchers on over a thousand acres of land and my mom came off the farm also and I also know how to farm and ranch. He, He,He.
J. W. Kilpatrick
 
He he he indeed, J. W. Kilpatrick;
My old man was the first one off of the farm in Kansas, and I can't wait to call him and tell him about the difference in quality between my single shot rifle and the Kamis pounding steel.


munk
 
munk said:
..all the firearms I've sent back. A lot. Again, One more time, Into the Breech, Valley of Death, Do it for the Gipper, let the UPS trucks roll; you can see them from Space. It's at least 10% with my own firearms, but I'm not a relevant statistical sample. But there you are.
munk
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I feel your pain, munk.

I'm sending one back for the second time in a month this Sat.

Bought this pump 12 ga. off a work friend in the early '90s. Popular brand, not saying which :D , came with 28" and short barrels, pistol grip & reg stock. Gave the guy $100 for it, in box, fired once or unfired. His wife just didn't want a gun in the house.

Had a cycling problem that gave me fits. Finally sent it back to factory.

They call. Reciever crack on inside- needs new reciever. Obviously a manufacturing defect, but warranty has exp. (and never applied to me).

OK. Do it. They charge me.

Gun doesn't show. I call factory. They find it, "don't know why they didn't return it to you."

Aha. Finally, an inexpensive shotgun for general throwaround use. Let this one get rusty & scuffed.

Stick 5 dummy rounds in it. First one ejects, second one ejects, hey- what's this? Round chambered, hammer uncocked. Can't open action. Must remove barrel. Does this every 2nd, 3rd round. Must unscrew barrel when it happens.

A new and completely different problem. :( Well, they fixed it in a sense.

So pack in the box, call the brown truck. Good thing they gave me a 10 year warranty, with product quality and repair work like that, I'm gonna need it.


Mike :mad: :thumbdn:

and I will bite my tounge in "best shotgun" threads. Cops & military use this one. Thank the Infinite I have a high-quality autoloader, if I need it.

and to add knife-related content, this shotgun does NOT have a bayonet mount, though it should.

Hey! just noticed- there's a funny new icon in the smilies when you edit called "jerkit" . Amusing, but not real family-oriented. :jerkit:
 
Ad Astra,

Thanks Ad. Me too. I got stories- from a lot of them- Ruger, Taurus, Colt...The problems are always fixed pretty good, sometimes even spectacular. But they happen with annoying regularity. Once I get the weapon right, it doesn't return to the factory again, and work forever or close enough to it. I'm happy.

They send out a lot of brand new mistakes.



munk
 
Regardless of the QA that's supposed to be in place in most plants it is often put on a back burner so to speak when product most move. The US Government military specs is the most stringent and must be followed to the letter for certain pieces that are designed to go BOOM.
The steel inserts inside some .50 caliber ammo has a lessor degree of need of accuracy although still better than most QA in private manufacturing.
At one place where I used to work the inspector was fired because he wouldn't sign off on a part that wasn't up to spec.:(
When I worked for the old Valley Bolt company here in Tulsa we made a lot of aircraft bolts and screws.
You'd be surprised at what leaves the plant sometimes.:mad:
QA is generally a thankless job.:jerkit: :(
 
They fired my Old Man a lot too. He worked on the Alaska Pipeline and afterwards had a chance to kiss A-- and would not; he told the Important People what they did not want to hear. So what could have been a lucrative jumping off point for his career- the pipeline and who knows what's next? - he had to punt and just kept getting regular jobs.

But you can tell I admire my Old Man quite a bit.



munk
 
Yvsa said:
You'd be surprised at what leaves the plant sometimes.:mad:
QA is generally a thankless job.:jerkit: :(
Click to expand...

You're telling me! "Quality is Job 1" officially at most places, unless it impacts the schedule, or someones idiot BS promise to the customer they made in order to get the sale, or could cost any money at all. Then it's ship the damned thing and if someone complains tell them "it's a feature, not a defect!"

Every seagull manager* out there spouts the word "Quality" as if he even knows what it means, but doesn't know jack about it. They think quality is something that can be tested into something just before it leaves manufacturing. Posturing morons for the most part I'm afraid.

Norm
(Mainframe QA Manager)


*A manager who flies in, s&*ts all over everything, and then flies off. Usually to a promotion.
 
Munk,

I also worked selling firearms, and as you, managed a gun department (altogether worked with gun sales for about 7 years).
There were some definite problem guns (some being downright LEMONS), but some were really great as far as not returning often for problems.
I sold a ton of Ruger 10/22 rifles, and it was extremely rare to have to send one back (YMMV). As most folks here know, there is not much to this rifle design, but it sure seemed like one hell of a reliable gun right from the factory. Lot of investment casting and CNC work, but they were sure some very reliable critters.


In pistols, there were also plenty of guns that were rare in returning for problems, with the Glock's being a surprize to me. I was not a fan at first, mostly because of the traditional type of guy that I am, it made me a bit skeptical. After quite a few years of selling them, I broke down and ended up owning some. I definitely sold more Glock pistols than any other self defense type firearm, and returns for repairs were extremely rare, again, in my experience, YMMV. About the only common problem with them were the plastic sights. Front sight might pop off, or maybe the back sight would wear down. Worst were the older plastic adjustable rear Glock sights, which would easily break off.
All this did help us sell a lot of Trijicon and Meprolite tritium night sights :)

Yeah, but as you say, returns could happen with any weapon, with some being more common than others. The Kel-Tec's, though they made nicely sized and light-weight weapons, were a problem for us, coming back for problems at a high percentage.
A gun like the West Hurley Auto Ordnance 1927-A1 or their 1911's, were notorious for coming back in need of repairs.
American made/Walther licensed Interarms PPK series came back for all sorts of problems.

And so on, and so on.

Anyway, just wanted to share some of my own observations with you ;)
 
You've brought up the other end of the Bell curve- the wonderful side, where it's tapered off from the main group and the few are well made and reliable.

I love Ruger, I mean, I really like them and the late Bill Ruger. But there was a time there when a lot of revolvers were going back. And my first hunting rifle from them had a chamber the no go gauge would close on.

I love them though because those same revolvers would outlast me and just shoot and shoot well. Do you know I've never had a Ruger Revolver, Single or Double action, that has not been able to group under an inch at 25 yards? I mean, we're talking some serious reloading work here to find the formula for a particular few, but it happened. And most of them are accurate right out of the box.

From my very human perspective, it seems to me Manufacturers hit waves of both good and bad things happening to their product line. Remember Bangor Punta Smith and Wesson handguns?

Does Smith and Wesson make a great revolver? You bet they do. Has a lemon ever come out of their doors? Of course, and the same is true for HI, and others would be lucky to have lasted as long and be as proven.

I sent a Marlin lever back once and the factory really did it right. I'm still a Marlin fan. Dan Wesson was wonderful to me also. Good old Ruger has always made good, too, even when they hit some bad spots.

munk
 
Yep Munk. I love ruger and also Marlin. I've got two marlin rifles. Always dependable and always amazes me how accurate. Both lever actions (.22 and 30/30). Great combo to have too.
 
I know that you mean. For instance I have had several Microtech Knives, very expensive that needed to go back due to problems.

Also another thing I have noticed with alarming regularity is that a LOT of the custom knives I have bought really don't have that good of an edge on them. Now I understand fancy scales and stuff are important, but if you are shelling out big bucks for a knife I feel like it should have a good edge. One of these knives I ended up sending to Dan and he put a WICKED edge on it. Based on the stuff of his I have dealt with you NEVER have to worry about a knife Dan has made or worked over being dull.:thumbup:

Another maker that puts an OUTSTANDING convex edge on his knives is Dale Chudzinski. I can wholeheartedly vouch that if you buy a blade from him it will have a wicked convex edge.

http://chudzinski.tripod.com/index.html
 
The only defective gun I have purchased was a 10/22 (when they all had walnut stocks). It was very accurate, but the scope mount holes on the reciever were not on the same axis as the bore. You had to really crank the adjustments on the scope to compensate, and two scopes actually croaked 'cuz of it. Finally figured out what was wrong, and Ruger paid freight both ways and apologised. They put a new barreled action onto my stock ~ unfortunately it isn't as accurate as the old set up was, although it is still acceptable. Although not defective, I have found that my Ruger centerfire rifles (not handguns) are not as accurate as my Remingtons and Savage. This seems to be born out by other people's experiences as well.

I work for a medical device manufacturer and as an industry we are under pretty tight scrutiny. Quality is an exceptionally high priority, which is good! Many of the features on our product must be held to +/- .0001 or .0002".
 
munk said:
They fired my Old Man a lot too. He worked on the Alaska Pipeline and afterwards had a chance to kiss A-- and would not; he told the Important People what they did not want to hear. So what could have been a lucrative jumping off point for his career- the pipeline and who knows what's next? - he had to punt and just kept getting regular jobs.

But you can tell I admire my Old Man quite a bit.



munk
Click to expand...
Admiration is a good thing!

Even a wonderful thing!

iBear
 
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