Quality control?

R

RGR

Joined
Oct 11, 1999
Messages
49
Dear friends and independent thinkers.
I see posts about UPS problems, slow delivery by whoever, complaints about the way guys spell, compalints cause one guy didnt get the joke... on and on and on!
But it seems to me that the Number ONE problem I run across in knives is quality control!!!
Am I alone on this? I just got in a couple of the new CUDA folders with the circut board scales. Kind of neat looking, the blade is ground nicely etc. Trouble is the blade flops around in both about 15 thous or so. For petes sake you can hear the blade moving around from side to side!
Trouble is they locked the pivot screw down and it cant be tightned up easily like I have had to do on Emerson, Benchmade and others.
Bulldogs are made in Germany I know. But they are advertised as a premium knife. I will not get anymore since one out of three have floppy blade syndrome and the handles look like a blind guy fit them.
Am I just being picky here?
I was going to try to sell these CUDAs on the forums. But I know I would just get them back from whoever with a legitimate complaint. So now I box them up and back to Camilluss for who knows how long till they get sent back?
Can anything be done? What is it, buyer beware as long as the distributors get their money? I suppose I should contact the distributor I got them from. It just seems to be a recurring problem in so called "quality" knives. Ron Ryder

 
First of all, gotta like your UserName
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Second of all, by all means, send them back. If you're not satisfied you'll just keep thinking, "should I have shipped 'em off?" The company, by no means small, is not about to get them, repack them, write you a note and say, "too bad, live with it." Hopefully, you'll get someone who appreciates your attention to detail, and send you replacements keeping that in mind. I had a problem once with an 'annoyance' and the manufacturer made good. Only those who expose QC problems are rewarded; those who don't bother live with inferior knives. If it bugs you, you're not being picky.
 
RGR, RLR is right if something really bugs you, it's being picky. It's expressing an opinion. I like Benchmade knive, but of the 7 I own, none of them had even grinds on the blade. It's a pain, mercilfully I can fix it, but I shouldn't have to. BTW, this feels like 6 degrees of seperation-RGR's post is responded to by RLR (lots of "R"s) and RLR is Canadain, so am I. So what's the connection going to be with the next post?
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"Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heav'n"
John Milton
There are only two types of people; those who understand this, and those who think they do.
 
Unfortunately quality control is frequently the first thing to go in corporate downsizing. A company my wife worked for totally eliminated their QA department. The idea was that it costs less for them to replace problem pieces than to pay someone to check them before they go out.

This may or may not be the case at Camillus. Event with the best quality control program, some problems still get by.

Camillus is a good company, overall. Send the knives back, I'm confident they will make it good.

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Travis Autry
My knives are just like rabbits---they keep multiplying!!
 
Alright, Jonathon, I'll bite.
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The only production folders I've ever bought that I felt were worth the money out of the box were a couple of Spydercos, which I sold because I didn't like the design, a REKAT Sifu and my Sebenza. I've bought several Benchmades, and all had problems, as well as one Kershaw, which was so bad I never bought another. The thing rattled when closed or open, and the liner didn't engage the blade at all; it didn't even reach the tang!

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For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:23


 
Looks like I missed being next by a few minutes! I guess you'll have to try to fit TAutry in there somewhere, Johan!

Ryan

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For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:23


 
Dear friends, some amazing responses. No grinds on the blade???
About the only name knife I have seen recently that did not seem to suffer blade wobble is CASE. Their overall quality seems great. Now if they just used a steel that didnt get dull while I was cutting my steak I would carry one!
I recently picked up a Robeson by Queen and one of the bone handled Queen whittlers marked Queen in ats 34 Both knives dealer cost is around 50 bucks and you would think they would spend an extra few minutes on the "good stuff" but no both knive have the "shake".
The real kicker is I buy a few of the China made knives for the under $10 box.they normally cost around 3.00 and I know the steel is junk but overall they are more consistent than knives made here. American CEOs should be ashamed of that fact. Maybe we should ask for some of the technology back that they "stole". Thanks, Ron Ryder
 
If you buy something and you're not satisfied then send it back.
The only way manufacturers will know about problems is if we tell them.

If you return something, and you're not happy with the service - tell them that, too.

Most companies know that an unhappy customer is the worst thing they can ever have - and those that don't won't last.
And with the way the internet is going, it won't be too long before a company that doesn't look after customers will have a bad name world-wide.

Some knife companies have a good reputation, and will only have to work at not losing that goodwill.

Does anyone here doubt that a problem with a (for one example, but there are others) Spyderco knife will be sorted out quickly and easily?
I don't - and as a result I'll spend my money on their knives without hesitating.

At the top of this thread RGR mentioned problems with a couple of CUDAs - and that already means that's a knife I'll think twice about spending my hard earned dollars on. I'd guess most others that read this will think the same.
Poor QC at Camillus has already cost them a possible sale or two - within hours of RGR's post.

And that sort of effect will only get bigger as net access increases.
I've said this before and it's becoming more and more true every day - it's the information age and it's us, the buyers, that have the information.

We need to share that information with the makers and each other.


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"..it is foolishness and endless trouble to cast a
stone at every dog that barks at you.."
 
Quality is the result of better materials and more time spent by skilled craftsmen (read: "expensive craftsmen"). Quality = time = money.

If the quality (time & materials) is not put into the product to begin with (every craftsman is QA), then a QA department will not "create" better quality. QA dept determines if the piece meets with the "Quality standards" that were set.

Some thoughts to share:

If the standard QC tolerance is .001, it is more time consuming to create... meaning more cost. .010 is much easier (& cheaper)to build.

RGR - Consistant bad quality has no value and is not difficult to produce. It's only function is to make money, not cut effectively.

I have noticed that many want higher quality, but are unwilling to pay for it. Do you expect these skilled craftsman, that are capable of creating such quality, to work for less then they are worth?

Even the skilled craftsman that programs CNC equipment must be good to create good quality. The equipment is no better than the craftsman operating it.

For someone to expect a $30 product to have the same quality as a $100 similar product is unrealistic.

The standards that companies set for their products is what they are offering to their ELU (End Line Users) IS their offering. Some companies offer more, or less, and charge accordingly.

If one likes higher quality, then one must be prepared to pay what it costs to produce higher quality.

It takes twice as long to grind CPM440V as ATS34. Twice the original cost per lb of steel and half the grinding wheel life. How is it possible to produce CPM440V for the same price? It's not.

I know a number of CEO's of Knife companies, both here and abroad. They all have different standards for what they believe is the best way to build a product. They are all trying to produce good product, just to different standards. and BTW, RGR, there is little that American CEO's can do about "Intellectual property theft" in countries that do not enforce such laws.

Think of "Quality" as the total time & materials costs that the manufacturer puts into the product before they leave the plant.

Sorry for the rant. Thought to add some fact to the discussion.

sal
 
Disclaimer:These are just my thoughts.

I agree that quality is important, but one must be ready to pay for it. Like Sal points out, good materials are more expensive to put out.

On this issue of tolerances, I have soem personal experience. I got to work on a Bridgeport Mill this summer, on a little project I did. I'd estimate is takes more than 10 times as long to get a factor of ten improvement in tolerances. A company that wants to hit a certain price point for desired ELUs has to take tolerances into account. Cheaper knives will have more play.

If you want something machined to exact tolerances buy a CRK knife. I don't own one, because right now I'm not super tweaky about tolerances etc.

~Mitch
 
Dear Mr. Glesser, I do not look at your post as a "rant". I even understand what you are saying.
I have an pretty good background in gunsmithing. About 20 years back I worked for a company famous at one time.. Simmons Gun Spec. I used to do the hand finish for reblueing. One guy liked shiny as a nickle in a goats butt m42 recievers. Used to take them to 600. I am currently doing a win 63 to 400 or so for engraving. I have 8 hours in the reciever alone. I have made several stocks from a blank using mostly hand tools. So yes, I understand hand labor and the cost. Gunsmiths, and I am sure knifemakers do it for the sake of the art. Very few can command the 50 or 60 dollars an hour the guys at the recent custom gunmakers show I recently attended can get.
But if a custom gunmaker is charging such the work dadgum well better be good!
And that is the problem I see in knives these days. The Emerson retailing for 130 has the same blade shake that the Cudas retailing for 30 dollar less. And then a good one comes along and some writer makes the public thinks they are all as good.
My point about the technology was said in jest. With Clintons Chinese dealings I doubt they had to steal it. He probably gave it to them!
The bad thing is out of probably 25 or 30 CRKT folders I have handled and sold NONE of them had the shakes. And yes, they probably keep their workers changed to the bench and they get a full bowl of rice each day. And thats not an answer for better quality either. I just wish someone knew what the answer to getting better quality was?
But it seems in many cases a knife selling for more still doesnt get it.
Thank You, Ronal Ryder
 
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