Quality or quantity?

golok

golok

Joined
Oct 20, 2000
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Excellent to almost perfect knives are hard to make, let alone find. So good to excellent knifemakers are also limited in number.

So we come to the question: if excellent knives take time to make, we can safely assume that their numbers will be small.

There's only so many one can make (great blades) with the hours in a week or month. Having said so, a knifemaker will experience some degree of difficulty receiving fair returns for all his hard work.

Perhaps sometimes he will have to decide whether to concentrate solely on quality or compromise, and go for some quantity (mid-tech?) in order to achieve some measure of financial stability.

But where do you draw the line between quality and quantity and not fall into the trap of sacrificing passion and throwing principles out of the window?
 
golok said:
But where do you draw the line between quality and quantity and not fall into the trap of sacrificing passion and throwing principles out of the window?
Click to expand...

Everybody has to eat and pay their bills. The bank doesnt care about quality, they want the mortgage payment on time.

So the answer to your question will be different for each knifemaker. Some makers dont even try to live off what they make from knives, others try and support a family with knifemaking. A man with kids to feed will either make enough money to survive or change things until he does... or get out of knifemaking and do something else.

There are examples all over: some makers turn to ripping people off or making crap knives, others try and make their knives in such a way as to make them more profitable.

Currently world prices for steel and titamium are rising like crazy, so I expect this will put more guys under the gun to raise prices or cut corners.

Each person has to draw their own line in the sand and decide wheter to cross it or not.
 
golok said:
Excellent to almost perfect knives are hard to make, let alone find. So good to excellent knifemakers are also limited in number.
Click to expand...

Come to the Knifemakers Guild Show at the end of this month. It might change your mind! ;)
 
hi kevin, are you a full time knifemaker? do you survive solely on knifemaking? I don't know whether it's even relevant, but your knives are major kick ass! I really feel like picking up where we left off sometime last year when we talked a little about a project....if only the Euro were more forgiving....
 
Golok, always quality! But even more than that....CHARACTER! Character of the person making the knife.
 
I agree with Darby 100%.

Can you have both? Well, yes.... As anyone (not just knifemakers) does tasks over and over, and refines their methods, the output will increase as the quality remains—or gets even better.

Tom's point about the KG show is right. In order to survive in this now-very-competitive field, you have to have exceptional quality. Paying attention to new methods, and managing your time are key roles. He and so many others will show us how this is done successfully.

I can't speak of knifemaking, but the amount of time I used to spend on images half as good as I can produce now was substantial. Same thing, kinda. :rolleyes:

I'm listening...

Coop
 
Greeting's all . here are my 2 cent's worth i personally feel that any knife that any maker makes Should be of the highest Quality . i have knives that have taken much longer to complete than i ever imagined, not in hour's but week's . and i think that is my fault completely .i have become my own worst critic Lol. i think as a maker grows in their craft so does the level of their workmanship until they feel they can't go any higher or become content with what they make . i am only a lowly part timer but i think some makers out there live for the challenge of the perfect blade . it is atainable if enough work is put into it .

i am not trying to say anything bad about anyone . im simply stating how i 1 maker feel's nothing more nothing less . :footinmou
 
Golok, I find that I am in disagreement with both of your opening statements. I think that there are lots of excellent to almost perfect knives and a great many excellent knifemakers.

There aren't many makers that will start ripping people off or making crappy knives, but there are lots that will try to make knives in a more profitable manner. That is just good business.

As Coop mentioned, the more you do something the faster and better you get at doing it. Faster will allow the maker to make more knives and better will mean that he/she should be able to charge more.

Some makers have gone to getting the most time consuming components of their knives outsourced. This can really cut down on the time it takes to make a knife without adversely affecting the quality. This allows the maker to produce more knives while at the same time maintaining excellent quality.
 
Spyken
When I started out many years ago now with knives it was a strictly artistic / hobby endeavor. That has all changed. Now a majority of my income comes from knifemaking. I still do graphic design when interesting assignments come along.

I was faced with the economic reality last year of either figuring out how to make knifemaking work as an art AND as a business or giving up knifemaking. So far, I am pretty successful and I think one reason for that is my refusal to compromise on quality. Every knife I make is the best one I can make. Before I compromise there, I WILL get out of the game.

Keith
Excellent to perfect knives are certainly out there. Ron Lake and Jürgen Steinau both make folders that are perfect... or pretty darn close to it! The do have their price however and they do take time. I know that Jürgen works weeks on ONE knife.

Each maker however is at his or her owm place in their career and must make their own decisions on how to go forward. Some will make one off knives that take forever and have a high price; others may go into semi-custom production and try and cut unit cost / price and make their nut on sales volume.

Others like me may keep trying to get faster as they get older and not make no mistakes along the way. Knifemaking is - to borrow some peotry - a miles to go before I sleep job.
 
I would like to live in a perfect world where the artist could take as much time as necessary to turn out absolutely flawless works of art working with his bare hands alone and still earn enough income to take care of his family.

As it is I work seven days a week normally turning out whatever models that will sell to provide that income. I admit that some of those are kitchen patterns where price is critical, a vegetable knife at $65 Cdn, and such. At that price level they are as perfect as I can get them in the time allotted.

Selling those "price in no concern" knives is difficult and spotty, only a few people in this world are tapped into that market well enough to make a living there.
 
Quality is the only way you are going to make it, you can mass produce knives any time and let too much slide. If it's got your name on it make the best you know how to do. There's alot to live and learn when it comes to all natures of the beast in the shop but you don't let a knife leave that isn't top notch. If there is that perfect knife in the makers eye that is. :D Cavelady
 
The point that I was trying to make Cindy is that as the price point rises the expected level for fit and finish should rise with it.

My average kitchen knife far exceeds the level of fit and finish of the internationally known brands that compete with it at the same price level. Such is the nature of handmade knives vs factory product.

At the same time the handles are simple fully contoured slab handles without bolsters and the blades are not crisply hollow ground and hand rubbed but instead are flat ground and mirror finished to perform better in the job intended. To some people this type of knife lacks "fit and finish". To others it is simply the best kitchen knife that they have ever had, and it looks good too.

I guess that what it comes down to is "within it's genre" must predeed every discussion on fit and finish and a full definition of what that genre entails must follow.
 
Hey George! Good looking knives, I just got through visiting your website and would LOVE to have quite a few of your kitchen knives, nice!!! :) Excellent.
 
George,
what about makers such as Newt Livesay, and a few other "hard core" knifemakers that crank out quantity, but base quality on toughness rather than finish? Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think you are right, because the niche for this type of knife is rather small, isn't it?
 
Walking Man,
The niche is a little larger than you think.
Ask the next 10 people you talk to(non knife ) about a knife that costs $100.00.See your response.
We are promoting BAKCA at some local gun shows.I brought some of my high end goodies.It is "casting pearls before swine". And that is OK by me.Most people do not have a clue.Pick up an expensive piece.You ask them if they know what they are handling.Tell them it costs $2000.00 and they get this blind look on their face.
Ask people at the shows "what are you carrying" and the crap they pull out of their pockets is un frikkin believable.Knock offs ect.
Most people(present company accecepted) just need a pos to use.
My observations.
Randy
 
There are as many niche markets as there are types of knives made and several quality levels within each defined sometimes by flawless finish, bells and whistles (like hand rubbed finishes), performance parameters, by historical accuracy or some other defining characteristic.

In general neatness and lack of gaps where components fit together are expected but after that you cannot readily define quality unless it the part of the basic buying equation........CUSTOMERS BASE THEIR PURCHASING DECISIONS ON THREE CRITERIA.....It must be WHAT they want (quality), WHEN they want it (call this one service or availability) and at a PRICE that they are willing to pay.

It all comes down to the customer and that customer's expectations. You can believe me or not but the more the customer is willing to pay affects, or at least reflects, what that customer's quality expectations are.
 
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