Quartermaster/BHQ

HappyDaddy

HappyDaddy

Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
1,987
The recent thread (well, recently revived) regarding Quartermaster knives, and its issue with calling its knives USA made, was closed, seemingly when some started to ask why BHQ would sell a product it knew to be misrepresenting itself. My question is: Was there something inappropriate about calling out BHQ on the issue, and if so, what? I don't have a dog in this fight - other than being a customer of BHQ. Why is it not appropriate to ask BHQ (or any other retailer) whether it is selling knives that it knows to be falsely claiming to be USA made?

Thanks - I hope this is the correct place for this question.
 
If you post the URL of the thread, I can look at the discussion and try to find out why it was closed. It may not be for the reason you think.
 
See posts 55, 56, and 57. The problems with QTRMSTR aka Mantis are not BHQ's concern. They do their part by selling and showing the knives. Bladeforums provides a place to critique them.
 
I'm concerned with the shot show 2015 reference in bhqs video. As someone else pointed out Quartermaster wasn't on the list of exhibitors for that event. The interview took place in what appeared to be a hotel lobby.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
See posts 55, 56, and 57. The problems with QTRMSTR aka Mantis are not BHQ's concern. They do their part by selling and showing the knives. Bladeforums provides a place to critique them.
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I appreciate the response, but I have to disagree entirely with your conclusion. Assuming the allegation (that Qmaster knives are not USA Made as claimed), is true, it is a violation of federal law (http://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/complying-made-usa-standard) to market any product that falsely claims to be made in the USA. BHQ claims on its Qmaster product pages that the knives' country of origin is the USA. While I can appreciate the burden on a retailer (marketer) to confirm mfg claims of all its suppliers, to ignore the well known evidence in this case strikes me as willful ignorance, and for an otherwise first rate outfit like BHQ, that's disappointing. We BF members, and frequent customers of BHQ, have a legitimate interest in being able to trust the information they provide.

Again, I am a fan of BHQ and they are in this conversation primarily because of the promotional video from Shot Show. While I think that the decision to cut off comments on this topic was wrong, and a disservice to your members, I fully support your right to do it. If anything constructive comes from this, perhaps it will be that BHQ will ask Qmaster for proof of its USA Made claim and act accordingly.

Cheers
 
I was also wondering why the thread was closed so abruptly and without any explanation. I figured it was because $ is involved and bhq didn't like what was being said. Why can't bladeforums members discuss this topic? Seems a little like censoring to me.
 
I closed the thread because it did seem a bit too much focus on one dealer was being taken rather than a greater issue of every other dealer that carries and sells their knives. I do not think retailers are in the business of verifying the morals of the manufacturers, rather they want to simply sell products. This kind of topic can veer way off topic and alienate people creating bad feelings that are not beneficial to anyone. If the manufacturer is breaking a federal law, that is a topic that should be hashed out between lawyers in a court room. I don't want the Feedback forum to turn into that, we don't need to be involved.
 
HappyDaddy said:
I appreciate the response, but I have to disagree entirely with your conclusion. Assuming the allegation (that Qmaster knives are not USA Made as claimed), is true, it is a violation of federal law (http://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/complying-made-usa-standard) to market any product that falsely claims to be made in the USA. BHQ claims on its Qmaster product pages that the knives' country of origin is the USA. While I can appreciate the burden on a retailer (marketer) to confirm mfg claims of all its suppliers, to ignore the well known evidence in this case strikes me as willful ignorance, and for an otherwise first rate outfit like BHQ, that's disappointing. We BF members, and frequent customers of BHQ, have a legitimate interest in being able to trust the information they provide.

Again, I am a fan of BHQ and they are in this conversation primarily because of the promotional video from Shot Show. While I think that the decision to cut off comments on this topic was wrong, and a disservice to your members, I fully support your right to do it. If anything constructive comes from this, perhaps it will be that BHQ will ask Qmaster for proof of its USA Made claim and act accordingly.

Cheers
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Yes you are 100% right about the illegal aspect of false claims, advertisement etc... but why is BHQ being single out when there is a lot other dealers selling their product?, making a video about their products is just not enough to be single out , if anything all dealers are victims to Quartermasters lies and might be stuck with their product, the subject was quartermasters and not BHQ.
 
I'm not interested in beating a dead horse, and this is far from a major scandal, but...

BHQ became an issue with members when its Shot Show vid was posted. Members rightly (in my opinion) questioned why BHQ would sell a product that was so widely known to have, shall we say, a highly questionable provenance. The same question could, and should, be asked of Knifecenter, GPKnives, and others, but it was BHQ's vid that was posted in the thread.

Rev - The legal obligation falls in the manufacturer AND the marketer (retailer). As I alluded to above, I think a retailer could be forgiven for advertising a false country of origin if it believes in good faith what the mfg has said. That isn't the case where there is more than enough evidence in the public domain to raise questions.

Finally, the most troubling aspect of this whole thing is BHQ's response - essentially being: "why pick on us, lots of people sell Qmaster." Shouldn't it have been - "thanks for the heads' up, we'll confirm that what we're telling you is true, and if it isn't, we'll fix it."
 
HappyDaddy said:
I appreciate the response, but I have to disagree entirely with your conclusion. Assuming the allegation (that Qmaster knives are not USA Made as claimed), is true, it is a violation of federal law (http://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/complying-made-usa-standard) to market any product that falsely claims to be made in the USA. BHQ claims on its Qmaster product pages that the knives' country of origin is the USA. While I can appreciate the burden on a retailer (marketer) to confirm mfg claims of all its suppliers, to ignore the well known evidence in this case strikes me as willful ignorance, and for an otherwise first rate outfit like BHQ, that's disappointing. We BF members, and frequent customers of BHQ, have a legitimate interest in being able to trust the information they provide.

Again, I am a fan of BHQ and they are in this conversation primarily because of the promotional video from Shot Show. While I think that the decision to cut off comments on this topic was wrong, and a disservice to your members, I fully support your right to do it. If anything constructive comes from this, perhaps it will be that BHQ will ask Qmaster for proof of its USA Made claim and act accordingly.

Cheers
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After the thread was closed I sent a message to Blade HQ stating similar points. I think I even used the term willful ignorance. I also made a point to let them know that I consider them the premier online knife retailer and that their customer service is excellent. I REALLY like Blade HQ and they will continue to be one of my three "go-to" retailers for knives.

I have no interest in making this a witch hunt after Blade HQ. Rather I would like to see Blade HQ (and other knife retailers) share my concerns about Quartermaster blatantly lying about being Made In The USA and having a manufacturing facility in Texas. Given the preponderance of the evidence, I find it very problematic that ANY retailer would feel comfortable in selling QM knives, let alone giving them a video platform to market their product and under false pretenses.

I appreciate the mods willingness to discuss this issue here. Although I don't agree with the decision to close the thread, I respect it and the job that the mods do in keeping BFC a great forum.
 
HappyDaddy said:
BHQ became an issue with members when its Shot Show vid was posted. Members rightly (in my opinion) questioned why BHQ would sell a product that was so widely known to have, shall we say, a highly questionable provenance. The same question could, and should, be asked of Knifecenter, GPKnives, and others, but it was BHQ's vid that was posted in the thread.

Rev - The legal obligation falls in the manufacturer AND the marketer (retailer). As I alluded to above, I think a retailer could be forgiven for advertising a false country of origin if it believes in good faith what the mfg has said. That isn't the case where there is more than enough evidence in the public domain to raise questions.
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This is the thanks BHQ gets for their annual effort to show off the latest gear. Let's all chip in on their legal fund for the lawyers and investigators they will need to verify each manufacturer.

Anyone convinced by an internet discussion that a manufacturer ain't right has the choice to avoid their products.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
This is the thanks BHQ gets for their annual effort to show off the latest gear. Let's all chip in on their legal fund for the lawyers and investigators they will need to verify each manufacturer.

Anyone convinced by an internet discussion that a manufacturer ain't right has the choice to avoid their products.
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I'm sorry but that was a most disingenuous response. Why y'all are bending over backwards to excuse this is beyond me. Since that is obviously the company line, I'll drop it.
 
Why is it not appropriate to ask BHQ (or any other retailer) whether it is selling knives that it knows to be falsely claiming to be USA made?
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If people think we're willfully ignoring the accusations then they're wrong. We have had (and continue to have) pointed discussions with Quartermaster about this subject. We have been assured that the knives are manufactured in the USA. I still don't understand why the burden of judgement seems to rest on BHQ. What I "know" personally is not enough to "convict" anyone. It's not viable for us to confirm all origins, materials, backstories, business ethics, etc. Cost issues aside, if we did that we'd probably end up dropping half our product line. ;) If the need arises we will take appropriate action. In the meantime we just want to sell knives.

Cam
 
HappyDaddy said:
I'm sorry but that was a most disingenuous response. Why y'all are bending over backwards to excuse this is beyond me. Since that is obviously the company line, I'll drop it.
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Probably a good idea. No one is bending over backwards here. We are simply showing some respect to BHQ by taking the sole focus off of them. If you as a private individual would like to pursue the matter against Quartermaster, by all means do so. In the meantime, I fail to see why we need to put one dealer under such scruitiny because a handful of people are dissatisfied. That is what doesn't make sense. Better results could be obtained by asking the dealers directly through email or on the phone. Trials held in the court of public opinion are kind of a waste in this case.
 
Cam -

I want to make it very clear that I am a big fan of BHQ and consider your company to be the best in the business. You're the first place I go when I'm looking for a knife, and that isn't going to change. My comments above may seem harsh, or even unfair. I'm sorry if that's the case. This Qmaster issue gets under my skin. Deceiving customers with false claims is inexcusable. (An interesting sidenote is that people are becoming more accepting of the notion that excellent knives and components can me made in China - see Reate for example). If you say you are on top of this, I accept and appreciate that. No one (not even the gov't) could reasonably expect you to independently verify the claims of all of your suppliers. If you check it out when something sketchy does come to your attention, no one should expect more.

No hard feelings I hope - Cheers.
 
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