Queen grinds on 1095, 420HC and ATS-34

supratentorial

supratentorial

Joined
Dec 19, 2006
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I have concerns about buying knives made by Queen since I've experienced a lot of problems with their knives over the years. The finish on the handles is usually very good but i've experienced problems with the construction/mechanics as well as very disappointing grinds.

From prior experience, I assumed they must not intend for their stainless knives to be used. There have been a few exceptions (such as the Queen made Robeson knives) but most of the 420HC knives had very poor grinds in comparison to their knives with 1095 blade steel like the Moore Makers and Winchesters. My experience with their D2 is more varied. I assumed they made the 420HC Schatt & Morgan knives to sit in a display case (they don't need to cut anything) and they made their 1095 Winchester and Moore Maker knives to be used.

Their 420HC main blades tend to be thick and often have extremely thick points. The small blades are usually ok but I'd describe some of the main blade profiles as thick and oval shaped.

I wasn't sure what the grind would be like on their ATS-34 steel. I hesitantly bought my first Queen-made knife with ATS-34 steel and I just received the knife today. Although it doesn't have the ridiculous oval profile that I've seen on some of their knives, it's still not going to be a good user without some modification. The blades are as dull as a spoon but they can be sharpened. The problem is the profile. It's fairly thick which isn't necessarily a problem. The problem is that it gets thicker toward the point.

They did put a swedge on the blade but it appears to be just cosmetic. A swedge is supposed to thin the steel at the point. But the swedge is deepest where it doesn't matter and it's almost non existent near the point. It's also uneven on the front and back but that doesn't affect function.

In order to use the knife, I will either have to take up part time knife making and fix the swedge myself or pay someone else to do it for me.

Here's a scan of the Moore Maker (1095) and a Schatt & Morgan F&W series (ATS-34) clip blade for comparison. Both knives are 2-blade sowbellies. It's raining so I wasn't able to take the knives outside for a photo but hopefully you can tell from this scan.


Moore Maker on the left, Schatt & Morgan on the right
 
I've also be hesitant to buy Queen knives after hearing all the ruckus about them. Recently picked up my first 2010 Queen made Northwoods off the exchange in 1095 and I'll be posting my impressions shortly on the grind, sharpness and finish.
What you have seems such an unneeded thick primary grind..If I hadn't scrolled further down the photo I would have thought there was no swedge there at all.
 
I picked up two cattle kings in D2, a walnut and a stag bone, the grinds were the best I have seen in years. they were sharp out of the box, I touched them up on a stone to get them shaving sharp, I am glad that queen has someone sharpening their knifes that puts a working edge on them.
 
Ryouchijtx said:
I've also be hesitant to buy Queen knives after hearing all the ruckus about them. Recently picked up my first 2010 Queen made Northwoods off the exchange in 1095 and I'll be posting my impressions shortly on the grind, sharpness and finish.
What you have seems such an unneeded thick primary grind..If I hadn't scrolled further down the photo I would have thought there was no swedge there at all.
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I look forward to your comments on the knife but based on my experience with their Winchesters and Moore Makers, I think the grind should be be ok. I've never had a bad grind from Queen when the steel is 1095. Their stainless has disappointed me almost every time.

ibtc said:
I picked up two cattle kings in D2, a walnut and a stag bone, the grinds were the best I have seen in years. they were sharp out of the box, I touched them up on a stone to get them shaving sharp, I am glad that queen has someone sharpening their knifes that puts a working edge on them.
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What year were your cattle kings made? Both the Moore Maker (2009) and Schatt & Morgan (2011) knives in the photo were made after the new ownership but still a few years ago. My other Queen made knives predate the new ownership. I've had varied experiences with their D2. Some good some not so good. Their Schatt & Morgan 420HC is almost always a disappointment to me but I've gotten some good 420HC branded Robesons.
 
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Aha that puts my mind at ease, thank you for the response and will post up when it gets here. I really think if I was to buy a Queen I would have to see it in person beforehand even if it cost a bit extra.
 
I just received a Schatt and Morgan Queen made #99 Scout today in the mail. It's sharp out of the box and the grinds are well executed.
 
supratentorial said:
What year were your cattle kings made? Both the Moore Maker (2009) and Schatt & Morgan (2011) knives in the photo were made after the new ownership but still a few years ago. My other Queen made knives predate the new ownership. I've had varied experiences with their D2. Some good some not so good. Their Schatt & Morgan 420HC is almost always a disappointment to me but I've gotten some good 420HC branded Robesons.
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I don't think a 2009/2011 will be AFTER Daniel's ownership. Seems like they bought it late 2011. But it is after their quality started their descent.
 
I have bought a number of Queen knives over the past 15 years, 1095 and ATS34. Worst complaint (for the price) was an obtuse grind...but I know how to sharpen a blade :) Never had to return one. I have seen a lot of Queens in the used knife bowls at gun or knife shows and they hold up well with time.
 
I don't mind sharpening. However, reprofiling to thin out D2 blades gets old pretty fast, even with diamond hones. Especially with a three bladed knife.
 
knifeswapper said:
I don't think a 2009/2011 will be AFTER Daniel's ownership. Seems like they bought it late 2011. But it is after their quality started their descent.
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Thanks, Mike. That gives me some perspective. I didn't look up the dates and misunderstood our last exchange on the forum about Queen. But I'm on the same page now.
 
knarfeng said:
I don't mind sharpening. However, reprofiling to thin out D2 blades gets old pretty fast, even with diamond hones. Especially with a three bladed knife.
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OMG, ain't that the truth. My only Queen is a # 48 whittler in birdseye maple that I had to spend a lot of time and effort into sharpening before it was able to be used. Once it was sharpened it worked really well, but it took some real effort.
 
I agree with Frank. I'd also emphasize there's a big difference between putting a bevel on an edge and reprofiling to compensate for a bad primary grind. In my honest opinion the latter should never be necessary if the manufacturer knows what it's doing.

I would not have posted the thread if I had realized that the knives were made prior to the new ownership. This is old news. It was my mistake for not looking up the dates.
 
I have a Queen #9ACSB Stockman that I bought not long ago but I am pretty sure it was new old stock. It came with very nicely sharpened edges that were usable right out of the box, though it benefitted from some stropping to clean up the burr.

On the other hand, I have what looks to be about the same era #2ACSB Serpentine Jack that I still don't have an edge on the blades that I like. Feels like the main clip blade was just too thick near the edge and has required a lot of thinning, and this is using my DMT diamond stones. If I ever get it finished up it'll be a nice little knife, but it's taking more work than I had thought it would.

Both of these are D2 steel, though, so I guess not exactly on topic.
 
jc57 said:
I have a Queen #9ACSB Stockman that I bought not long ago but I am pretty sure it was new old stock. It came with very nicely sharpened edges that were usable right out of the box, though it benefitted from some stropping to clean up the burr.

On the other hand, I have what looks to be about the same era #2ACSB Serpentine Jack that I still don't have an edge on the blades that I like. Feels like the main clip blade was just too thick near the edge and has required a lot of thinning, and this is using my DMT diamond stones. If I ever get it finished up it'll be a nice little knife, but it's taking more work than I had thought it would.

Both of these are D2 steel, though, so I guess not exactly on topic.
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All discussion is welcome and it's on topic in my opinion. As I said previously, my experience with their D2 is varied. It's varied a lot. One of my Queen marked D2 knives had an amazing grind. Some were fine. Some were acceptable. A couple would make better crowbars than knives!
 
Very mixed experiences actually. Some D2 has arrived sharp, most not and as others point out, trying to get a three blade knife sharp can be like one of those endless tasks the gods handed out in Greek mythology, even with diamonds. That said, when D2 is sharp it's a fantastic pocket-knife steel. But a manufacturer who can't send out decently sharp blades from the factory is, walking a tightrope......

The Heritage series in carbon all arrived major blunt with seemingly bad bevels, lot of work even there to thin down thick edges.

As for stainless, well most Schatts have be alright but a 2014 Mini Muskrat from Queen in the keystone series simply WILL NOT sharpen at all? It seems to be uber hard or just impossible to do anything with! What a tragedy as the fit&finish is great, looks really good too, but a knife that won't cut??? A car that never drives....?? Thought about sending it to an expert sharpener but postage from Europe etc etc. A 2015 Sleeveboard D2 is also really blunt, its tiny blades are hard to sharpen due to diminutive size.

I use the word tragedy again, as some of the Queens in my collection are the best production knives I own and they're sharp, the company's seemingly disinterest in providing sharp on delivery or in some cases sharpenable knives is simply bizarre, with a little effort and consistency they could really contend.
 
My newest Queen is a 2008 sowbelley and all of mine regardless of steel have good grinds especially the ones with spear blades and the sowbelley. I can't speak of anything past 2008.
 
This is an ATS34 S&M from 2005. I had Don Hanson III regrind the spear into a Wharncliffe, and he also resharpened it afterward. Notice how the edge on his Wharncliffe is twice the width of the factory clip blade, indicating that the edge angle is half as obtuse. Don's edge is about 15°, while the factory edge is about 30°+ (per side). The edge grind on the clip is even, and I was able to get a good edge on it with diamond stones, but it is still thick and doesn't cut as well as the Wharncliffe.

IMG_0624.jpg~original
 
I just pulled the trigger on a couple of scouts in D2, hoping they are of the new and improved variety. The scout is one of my favorite patterns, and I just couldn't resist. My willpower is sadly lacking lately.
 
Whetstone39 said:
I just pulled the trigger on a couple of scouts in D2, hoping they are of the new and improved variety. The scout is one of my favorite patterns, and I just couldn't resist. My willpower is sadly lacking lately.
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I definitely want your opinion when these arrive!
 
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