About to do my first heat treat of a few knives in 1084 and just had a quick question about it. One of the knives is11" overall, which is 1-1 1/2 inches longer than the size of my quench "tank" - my question is whether it is problematic if the end of the hilt is not quenched with the rest of the blade?
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Quench Question
- Thread starter JRCKnives
- Start date
Can you narrow down "end of the hilt"? You mean the tang? No it does not need to be quenched but I recommend that you normalize once before austenitizing. On 1084 - heat to 1625-1650F and still air cool. It only needs to be done once.
Yes the end of the tang. I will give normalizing a try! Thank you for the answer!Can you narrow down "end of the hilt"? You mean the tang? No it does not need to be quenched but I recommend that you normalize once before austenitizing. On 1084 - heat to 1625-1650F and still air cool. It only needs to be done once.
Not a problem that's what the forum is for right? 
Normalizing is to refine grain size and carbide shape. It's a rather important part of hot working. The result is essentially a tougher same hardness billet.
I'd also advise you if you are oil quenching - if you are heat treating by forge (bad idea) or furnace, angle iron can be used to keep the warping to a minimum but you have to account for that excess mass in the hold time so that you get the center of the 1084 to proper temps.
Normalizing is to refine grain size and carbide shape. It's a rather important part of hot working. The result is essentially a tougher same hardness billet.
I'd also advise you if you are oil quenching - if you are heat treating by forge (bad idea) or furnace, angle iron can be used to keep the warping to a minimum but you have to account for that excess mass in the hold time so that you get the center of the 1084 to proper temps.
Great point - I do have a small forge that will be my heat source in the short term. Will be getting a knife kiln soon-ish but am willing to try (and likely fail a few times) on 1084 with the forge until then.Not a problem that's what the forum is for right?
Normalizing is to refine grain size and carbide shape. It's a rather important part of hot working. The result is essentially a tougher same hardness billet.
I'd also advise you if you are oil quenching - if you are heat treating by forge (bad idea) or furnace, angle iron can be used to keep the warping to a minimum but you have to account for that excess mass in the hold time so that you get the center of the 1084 to proper temps.
That's how it goes! You never learn if you don't fail right? This stuff is expensive also so I totally understand lol.Great point - I do have a small forge that will be my heat source in the short term. Will be getting a knife kiln soon-ish but am willing to try (and likely fail a few times) on 1084 with the forge until then.
Stuart Davenport Knives
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Normalizing does not refine grain (always). In certain alloys that don't have much in the way of carbide, normalizing will actually blow the grain up, and then "thermal cycling" at a lower temp and annealing will actually refine the austenite grain. The point of normalizing is relieving forging stresses and to get grain all uniform, usually a larger grain that whay you want. Hence a few thermal cycles after normalizing to actually refine the aus grain. However, steels with vanadium, even a very small amount, usually will have their grains pinned by the vanadium, and normalizing will not enlarge the grain drastically.
Very good addition information that is correct
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
ilmarinen - MODERATOR
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In the best scenario, a quench tank should be 4" deeper than the blade and at least 4" wide. This allows up and down movement while completely submerged. If the tang sticks out, you will have a flare up. This looks pretty scarry, but just let the blade sit in the tank and blow out the flames in a few seconds ( or let them die on their own in a short while).
A bigger worry is too little quenchant. It takes a good gallon to quench a blade fully. A large blade is best with two or more gallons.
A bigger worry is too little quenchant. It takes a good gallon to quench a blade fully. A large blade is best with two or more gallons.
I did not even think about that. Thank you for the safety first!.
You have convinced me to just deal with my smaller blades for now until I figure out a larger quench tank to deal with the larger blade.
You may be able to find some larger ammo cans or old fire extinguishers to make larger quench tanks from. I used to use the metal vegetable drawer tray from an old refrigerator. I switched over to a 4" square tube and a 6" round tube for my quench tanks so I can quench vertically instead of horizontally like I used to.
I did get an ammo can that was listed as airtight - but... it leaks - and oil leaks suck to cleanup. Which is why I was looking for alternatives that would accommodate a larger blade (and don't leak). The ammo can would have been ideal - just not sure I want to risk buying another one that could also be leaky.
Ah, ok! I tested my ammo can with water before I put the oil into it. You can always use JB Weld to seal up any corners or where leaks are. Real Ammo Cans are usually sealed pretty well though. I had the tubes welded to plates of steel and then coated the welds with JB Weld so make sure nothing was going to leak, then used Gorilla Spray Seal over that. Nothing leaks out of those tanks!