Quenching in foil

D

dominion22

Joined
Dec 24, 2015
Messages
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Further to my 1095 questions,can it be quenched in the foil? If not, how do I get it out of the foil and into the oil in a matter of seconds?
 
Not sure about that, I only quench stainless in foil, and for that I use compressed air and aluminum plates. The few carbon steel I heat treat in the oven I do without foil. I haven't played with 1095 much, but if I remember rite you've got something like 1 second to get from critical to below 900 deg. F., so I would either try quenching in the foil or forgo the foil and leave enough material to clean any decarb off.
 
Short answer? No. Question? Why would you want to use foil with 1095?
 
No, it won't work. 1095 is a shallow hardening steel with a pearlite nose of only a fraction of a second. Anything that would slow down the quench at all will make it not harden.

Additionally, there should be no reason to HT 1095 using foil.

I think you may be mixing up HT info from carbon steels ( like 1095) and stainless and tool steels (like 440C). They have very different procedures and the high temp processes use a foil packet.

There are some anti-scale coatings used on carbon steels. Turco and PBC are two of them. They protect the steel from oxygen during HT. Most folks don't use them. The entire blade will still need re-sanding after HT anyway.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
No, it won't work. 1095 is a shallow hardening steel with a pearlite nose of only a fraction of a second. Anything that would slow down the quench at all will make it not harden.

Additionally, there should be no reason to HT 1095 using foil.

I think you may be mixing up HT info from carbon steels ( like 1095) and stainless and tool steels (like 440C). They have very different procedures and the high temp processes use a foil packet.

There are some anti-scale coatings used on carbon steels. Turco and PBC are two of them. They protect the steel from oxygen during HT. Most folks don't use them. The entire blade will still need re-sanding after HT anyway.
Click to expand...

You say most people don't use them.....
Is there a pro or con to this, as of why?
 
Not entirely off-topic, but some folks newer to knife making can be a bit confused when we talk about "quenching" air hardening steels while using foil.
We are not actually/physically "quenching" the blade in traditional fluid.
 
On anti-scale coatings on 1095 - there are many pros and no cons I can think of. I use borax to coat HC steels and it really helps on scale buildup on steel. Was it off with hot water after quench and very little grinding required. I don't finish HC steel near as much as SS before quench.

Ken h>
 
I tried coatings on oil hardening steels but I've found it to be quicker to grind off the scale than to apply the coating. If the H/T is done properly, scale will only ne a few thousandths thick and is easily removed. Another thing with the coatings is that no matter how careful I am I usually wind up with a decarb spot that has to be ground off anyway. Just isn't worth the hassle to me but your mileage may vary.
 
I could see the benefit of doing thermal cycles in foil then removing the blade for the last go around in the oven. For 1095 I thermal cycle the steel similar to Mr. Wheeler. The back and forth in and out of the oven creates a lot of decarb. I then grind the blade of the scale and decarb, add clay, into the oven and quench. Next blade I do I'm going to try the thermal cycles in foil.
 
I use foil the sub-critical anneal on a carbon steel blade, even a W2 one, so it can have a place in your HT process. I use Brownell's anti scale liquid formula for the quench.
 
Taximanny said:
You say most people don't use them ( Blade anti-scale coatings).....
Is there a pro or con to this, as of why?
Click to expand...

Darren pretty well summed it up - no real gain since the blade has to be ground down again anyway. If you were casting small machine parts, it would be a different thing.

FWIW, you have to be careful with borax based HT coatings, as they have a working range ending at around 1600-1650F. If it too hot, the borax breaks down and can eat pits in the blade. In a kiln, there isn't much worry. In a forge HT, it can be a big problem for an inexperienced smith. There are special coatings made for higher temps, but I know no one who uses them.

James pointed out that things like annealing and such, when soak times are long, can be done in foil to decrease decarb. There is no quench done, and the cooling rate is very slow, so there is no problem.
 
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