Question about a 2010 Small Sebenza 21 Insingo

[photoman12001]

I just got into CRKs and I've picked up quite a few on the Exchange here. All of them have been great but I just noticed an issue with my 2010 Small Sebenza 21 Insingo while I was messing with all of them tonight. The pivot screw was about a half turn loose so I tightened it and the blade become pretty difficult to move. I've got several other 21s (small and large) and I can tighten all of them completely without affecting blade movement, which is a benefit of the pivot bushing if I understand it correctly. The knife is LNIB but I tore it down to take a look. The internals were bone dry so I greased it and reassembled but that didn't fix the issue. I was a little worried that it might have been a clone but I tore down my large 21 Insingo and one of my other small 21s (both 2010 models) for comparison and everything looked spot-on. The date codes are on the scales and the blade pivot hole even has the small cut-outs inside. The things that made me question it are the finish is much smoother than any of my other CRKs and the CR logo is cut deeper than on any of my other CRKS. Otherwise I can't see any difference.

Anyway, my guess is that one or both of the pivot washers are a little too thick or the pivot bushing is not quite wide enough. Should I just send it to CRK and let them have a look at it?

Both of these were bought on here from the same seller who has excellent feedback. I doubt you can see the difference in finish between them but the small's is much smoother. None of my other CRKs are like that. All the others have more texture and they seem to be equivalent in that area aside from the knife in question. The extra light reflection off the rounded areas is an indication of the smoother finish. You might be able to see the deeper logo cut though. Has anyone seen either of those attributes? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

These are some of the others I've picked up and I've disassembled most of them. So while I'm new to CRKs I have poked around in quite a few of them recently. By the way, that small Classic with micarta inlays is my favorite. The action is so smooth and it's just an awesome little knife.

 

[MessOnAMission]

Nice collection for someone who "just" got into CRK! Could it be possible that you have pinched a washer? One of the downfalls of the pivot bushing is that when there is enough room (when the pivot and/or stop pin screws are loose) a washer can move slightly and get pinched between the bushing and the scale, and when the screws are tightened back up, it becomes very difficult to open or close the blade. Which method do you use to disassemble and reassemble the knife? This thread has a pretty good guide, even though the pictures are gone. This page from the CRK website way back when has the relevant pictures.

Not too sure about the scales being that smooth. I have a small insingo, and after I had used it for a while and the texture on the scales wore off, I believe it got a bit shiny like that. I've since stonewashed the scales, though.

Also, the CR logo on both my small insingo and small regular are as deep as the logo on your small insingo, so you're good there. The logo on my TiLock is very shallow. Not sure why they vary from knife to knife.

 

[Anarchy84]

I wouldn't worry about it being a fake. Looks legit. The knife was probably handled / opened enough times to polish the finish a little bit.

Of all my CRKs there is only one that exhibited this pivot behavior when new. Interestingly, it was also a Small Insingo (Micarta, though). If I tightened the pivot screw down all the way - until a slight bend in the wrench was visible - the knife would be noticeably stiffer when opening. Not to the point where it was impossible to open, just uncomfortable.

In an effort to resolve this I backed the pivot screw off 1/8 of a turn, and while the knife remained stiffer than my other Sebs, it was usable. Over the course of a couple weeks it broke in on its own, and now it's fine.

My advice is to tighten the pivot until the head of the screw touches the titanium, and then go a tiny bit further (1/16th of a turn). Just enough for the screw to grab the Ti. That way it won't loosen up on its own. The knife will be remain a little stiff, but I promise it'll get better soon enough.

 

[alwayscarryaknife]

Also, make sure you don't put too much grease on the washers. Tight tolerances don't allow for a ton of grease. Just a dab.

 

[photoman12001]

Thanks for the advice. I didn't figure the smooth finish was due to handling since it is absolutely uniform. The only distinguishable mark on the knife is the faintest snail trail on the pocket clip. I don't think a washer is pinched. With the 21s I typically use the method of assembling the handle and backing the stop pin screw out just enough to slide in the blade/bushing/washer assembly. I thought that might have been the case at one point because I could see a reddish color through the pivot hole as a pushed the pin so I started over. It turned out to be the red grease I use which means that it is entirely possible that I put a bit too much grease in there. I usually use it sparingly but I might have gotten over zealous since it seemed to be binding a bit. I'll take a look at that.

I did amass these in a pretty short time frame, about a moth, and had to sell some stuff to do it. It happened that way because I bought my first Sebenza (a small, plain 2014 21) to see what the fuss was all about. It was nice but didn't excite me all that much. I then started poking around on the Exchange here and learned about the different styles available and decided to try all the ones that seemed appealing to me. The 2010 small Insingo 21 in question was actually the second one I picked up and I liked it better than the first for some reason. It was all downhill from there. Since it was my second one the finish thing didn't really jump out at me at the time. I still want to try a large Classic or 21 with inlays and maybe a large Regular. I might sell a couple of them but I'll be keeping most. The only one I've sold so far was the first one since I picked up a 2010 user just like it. I plan on doing a review/comparison of the various models in the near future. I figured I might be able to offer some insight to new buyers since I'm new to all of them and haven't had any one variant long enough to become biased to it.

 

[Ajack60]

After watching the CRK video's about how the knives are made, there's a portion of the video showing the assembly process. When it's put together, it's checked for smoothness. In the video, it shows a worker honing washers. It's a very interesting video to watch, both parts.

I have honed washers on a couple of the CRK's I have. I've got a piece of Arkansas stone that I use. Even though the washers are flat, it's surprising that they will have high and low spots. Using the weight of my index finger to hold the washer, in a figure eight motion, I've made a few passes on the blade side of the washer only. I've been leery of ever polishing the washer. Some have done it, I wouldn't because of the tolerances. It has made a difference as far as it not being as tight and it turned out a lot smoother. I've never done both sides of a washer, don't see a need to.

I always try to disassemble the knife paying close attention on which way the washers are facing and put it back together the same way. The blade side of the washer sees wear while the slab side doesn't. That's why I believe on an older knife, if you don't put the washers back the same way they came off each time it's taken apart, it won't feel the same or like you mentioned, you have to keep the pivot screw loose.

 

[bhyde]

Is the small Insingo used? I would assume so for it's age, so I am a bit puzzled that it has an issue unless the person you bought it from never used it.
Also, the finish may be due to the previous owner, if there is one, refinishing the scales themselves. Unless they used a large enough medium and of the right material..it wouldn't look the same.
Yours was likely blasted with a pretty fine glass medium.

The washers typically aren't as flat as the scales..Remember, they are lapped on a machine. Lapping can achieve the highest degree of flatness. Measuring flatness can be a challenge and at a certain point, optics that are registered with NIST are used by view light bands. Anyway, depending on how the washers are made; Punch and die, EDM process or milled, will determine how flat they are. It's likely they are punched.

 

[photoman12001]

Yeah, I definitely keep track of pivot washer and bushing orientation and put everything back together the way it was. These two 2010 Insingos are really LNIB and there is hardly any noticeable difference between the sides of the washers, so I doubt they have been opened/closed much. All my other CRKs have been pretty well used and all have smoother actions than the Insingos. I'm sure they just need to be broken in. I tore the small down again this morning and it definitely had too much grease applied. I remedied that and reassembled. It's still stiff but it's easier to open/close now that last night with the pivot screw tightened all the way. Backing the screw out just a little, I mean almost imperceptibly, makes it a lot better. I'm not too worried about it at this point. If I decide to actually carry that one I'm sure it will break in.

For now, these are the ones seeing use. I carry the large Starbenza and small plain 21. At home I mess with the small micarta Classic quite a bit. I'm also carrying a Benchmade 32 Morpho and ZT 0900 a lot. All of them are great knives.

 

[Anarchy84]

If you're used to buying Sebs that were already broken in - especially a classic or regular - a brand new 21 will definitely feel stiff. FWIW, my small 21 that initially felt difficult when tightened down now feels perfect. Enjoy breaking it in!

 

[socom1970]

If you're used to buying Sebs that were already broken in - especially a classic or regular - a brand new 21 will definitely feel stiff. FWIW, my small 21 that initially felt difficult when tightened down now feels perfect. Enjoy breaking it in!

Well said. My used 21's and Regulars are beautifully smooth and broken-in, wheras my new 21's have a ways to go yet. They truly get better with age and proper use. :thumbup:

 

[photoman12001]

Well said. My used 21's and Regulars are beautifully smooth and broken-in, wheras my new 21's have a ways to go yet. They truly get better with age and proper use. :thumbup:

I'm learning that. My 2010 small plain 21 was stiff despite being used. I tore it down, sparingly lubed it, and have been regularly opening/closing it for a week now. The difference is amazing. The blade will actually drop free when closing now. The longer I own CRKs the more I realize that time does make you appreciate them more.

 

[photoman12001]

I was testing some setups for doing video reviews and did one comparing this finishes on some Sebenzas. I figured I'd post a link since it was relevant to the discussion.

[video]https://youtu.be/Atmo5vwch44[/video]

 

[bhyde]

Great video- Fantastic!

You need to post some of your pics in the sticky at the top- We have several people who are very good at photography, me not being one, who post their collections and show off their skills quite well.


Anyway, thanks for contributing content to the CRK forum. We have a great collection of enthusiasts here