Question About A Blade Stop On The 110

[ghostrider]

I have a question I’m sure someone here can help me with. I bought my 110 in 1998, and it only gets used during deer season (unfortunately it’s only needed one sharpening). Shortly after I bought it, I noticed that the edge was what appeared to be either a chip or roll, located about 1/8” to 3/16” from the tip. After some thinking, I realized it was from the inside of the handle where the blade hit the spacer that is located in the pommel end of the handle in the bolster area. I thought maybe it was from squeezing the knife when closed and made sure not to do that. However, I also noticed that it would again happen if I just let the blade close by the natural force of the back spring. I called Buck and was told that it was defective, and that it should have had a blade stop. The rep offered to fix it for me if I sent it in. Since it was right before deer season, I declined. Since that happened, I’ve owned many other knives and discovered that some knives have blade stops, and others don’t. As examples, my Cold Steel El Hombre had no such blade stop, and the blade would stop against the handle if I was careless, or squeezed the knife while closed. OTH, my Spyderco Endura had no such issue (mainly due to the mid lock design). Somewhere along the way, I just came to the conclusion that it really wasn’t defective, but just the way it was designed (like some other knives). Truth is I like the knife and didn’t want to send it in.

I never gave it much thought until last week when I decided to pick up another 110 at Gander Mountain (too bad they are blister packs). Now I’m curious as to what other people’s experience is. Is this really a defect, of is it just the way these knives are?

 

[110 Dave]

yes this is some thing that happens with this style of knife..
i have seen other brands with this same issue...
as a user i would send it it!!! and feel you should should also....
i am not sure why this is ~ that some do and some dont...
or if some thing is missing or needs to be added...
would be nice to know... good question

i have some collector issues that will do this same thing..
if i let any one handle them i tell them
do not let the blade snap back in!!!

 

[allenC]

Yours is defective without a doubt.
I have had other lockbacks with the same problem.
I even once had the same problem with a Spyderco Native.

As I understand things (and please, someone correct me if I'm wrong), the portion of the tang known as the "kick" is what keeps the blade from hitting the lock and/or spring or bolster inside the handle.
If this portion of the tang does not protrude far enough from the blade, the blade can come in contact with the spring or locking bar or rear bolster and blunt the blade.

On a normal lockback: when closed, the kick is the only part of the blade that should come in contact with the locking bar.
The kick keeps the edge from hitting the lock or spring or rear bolster inside the handle.
On a defective lockback: the kick is not long enough to keep the curved upper portion of the blade from hitting the rear bolster portion that holds the lock spring.
And it you look inside the handle at the rear bolster, you will probably see a small cut mark where the blade is hitting the inside of the rear bolster.
Maybe this picture will make it more clear.....

As far as I know, there are only two ways to correct the problem:
1) Replace the blade with another blade which has a sufficient kick on the tang.
or
2) File a groove in the rear bolster where the blade is hitting. The groove would have to be deep enough to compensate for the shortness of the kick.

Send it back to Buck and they will make it right.

Good luck,
Allen

 

[oldscrimmer]

Back in the 70's I too bought a Buck 110, and found the very same problem as you describe. I bought my dad one several years later, and it had the same problem. allenC has the answer, if you don't want to send it back. I took a Dremel tool and relieved the inside rear bolster. What happens is by squeezing the knife or allowing it to snap shut the kick contacts and overrides the spring and actually moves it into the opposite direction allowing the blade to advance deeper into the slot between the liners thus contacting the inside of the bolster. If the kick is longer, then the tip of the blade is exposed when closed. I fought it for years until I bought another knife and retired the 110. The problem is inherent to lockbacks....some makers have solved the problem, others have not.

 

[ghostrider]

Back in the 70's I too bought a Buck 110, and found the very same problem as you describe. I bought my dad one several years later, and it had the same problem. allenC has the answer, if you don't want to send it back. I took a Dremel tool and relieved the inside rear bolster. What happens is by squeezing the knife or allowing it to snap shut the kick contacts and overrides the spring and actually moves it into the opposite direction allowing the blade to advance deeper into the slot between the liners thus contacting the inside of the bolster. If the kick is longer, then the tip of the blade is exposed when closed. I fought it for years until I bought another knife and retired the 110. The problem is inherent to lockbacks....some makers have solved the problem, others have not.

I think oldscrimmer has it right. It’s just a matter of the kick overriding the spring, and moves it in the opposite direction. When the blade comes to rest (without pressure) inside the handle, there is probably about 3/16” to ¼” of travel before it contacts the inside of the bolster. I opened up my new 110 last night after posting, and noticed it did the same. It also occurred to me it could be happening when I pull the knife from the sheath, as that could possibly put pressure on the blade, forcing it against the inside of the bolster (instead of upon the action of closing).

I also agree that this problem is inherent to lockbacks. Not all of them will allow the kick to override the spring. My Crossbills and Pelican will do this, but not some of my other mid lock knives. I think it’s more a matter of the particular design than any defect or flaw. Either the spring will move when pressured by the kick, or it will not. My question is, “are there any 110’s out there that don’t allow the kick to move the spring?” From what I’ve gotten from this board so far, the answer seems to be “No”.

...
I even once had the same problem with a Spyderco Native....

A Native! Wow!

Now see, that would be defective, unless they made them differently in the past (mine is dated 2003). I’ve had a total of two Natives (sold one off), and I still own a Native III. None of them had any movement of this sort whatsoever. That lock bar shouldn’t be moving when squeezing the blade while it’s closed. Something is definitely wrong with that one. I realize that some lockbacks are designed so that the kick can force the lock bar into the opposite direction when squeezed while closed, but the Native is not one of them. No way that should be happening.

 

[allenC]

A

Native! Wow!

Now see, that would be defective, unless they made them differently in the past (mine is dated 2003). I’ve had a total of two Natives (sold one off), and I still own a Native III. None of them had any movement of this sort whatsoever. That lock bar shouldn’t be moving when squeezing the blade while it’s closed. Something is definitely wrong with that one. I realize that some lockbacks are designed so that the kick can force the lock bar into the opposite direction when squeezed while closed, but the Native is not one of them. No way that should be happening.

No, no....perhaps I was not clear.
The spring was not moving at all.
The problem was that the Native's kick was too short.
So everytime I closed the knife the blade would hit the FRN, even if I did not squeeze the blade in to the handle.
Just closing the knife was all it took.
It left a small cut in the FRN and put a blunt spot on the blade everytime.

It took me quite awhile to figure out what was happening....
I would get a razor-sharp edge on my Native, slice some paper in to fine shavings, shave the hair off my arm, etc...
And then I would close my knife and clip it in my pocket, never giving it a second thought.
But the next time I needed to cut something, instead of that sweet smooth effortless slice it would snag about 2/3 the way through.
This went on for some time: sharpen, close, open, cut, snag , sharpen, close, open, cut, snag :grumpy:, sharpen, close, open, cut, snag !!!

So, one day, after getting that razor-sharp edge, I looked down the edge under some bright sunlight.
No light was reflected off the razor-edge.
I then closed the knife and re-opened it and looked down the edge again....
This time the sun reflected off of a blunt spot.
It was at this time I noticed the small cut mark inside the handle at the exact same area as the blunt spot of the blade.
I should have realised sooner.

I sent it back to Spyderco and they sent me a new Native.

As for my 110's....
If you just close the knife and the blade hits the back, it's defective.
Just closing a 110 should not create enough force to cause the blade to hit the bolster.
But if you're forcing the blade to move the locking bar, and also causing the blade to hit the rear bolster, then I would say that the problem is the user and not the knife.

 

[Joe Houser]

There are a lot of variables that can come into play to cause that condition, and they are pretty much all mentioned above. It can be a combination of several of them.
It does pretty much go away eventually with a few sharpenings. We try to balance everything, the edgeing process, and the blade action or tightness of the blade, to lessen this. It should be rare that you would find the blade actually resting on the inside of the case. Over rotation when the blade is closing, due to a very springy spring, or a loose blade, or combo of both, is what usually causes that nick.
I hope this helps.

 

[ghostrider]

... then I would say that the problem is the user and not the knife.

I'm starting to think that's the problem with mine. I think I just have to be mindful with it.

Thanks everyone for the help and comments.

Edited to add:

I just got to thinking. It's even more strange on the Native because of the 50/50 choil. Sure would be an interesting blade to see.

 

[oldscrimmer]

One thing that has not been directly mentioned you might also keep in mind when you looking at lockbacks in general. On lockbacks the pivot pin that provides a fulcrum for the spring is located sometimes toward the rearof center or butt of the knife, others have the pin in the center, and still others toward the front of center. This will definitely affect the "over travel" of the blade. In the case of the Buck 110 the finger cutout is toward the back and the pin around center leaving alot of spring toward the front, making it "more springy" when the kick contacts it forcing it backwards. In other brands the spring is shorter, and the pin further to the front.

 

[allenC]

I just got to thinking. It's even more strange on the Native because of the 50/50 choil. Sure would be an interesting blade to see.

Nope, it has nothing to do with the choil.
If you look at your Native while it's closed, you will notice that the blade is still just a fraction of an inch above the inside FRN "bolster" portion that houses the spring.
If the blade was farther from the FRN "bolster" portion of the handle, then the tip of the blade would protrude above the handle when the knife was closed.

 

[proguide]

I actually have a native where the blade comes in contact with the spring itself. It just touches it so that the edge will reflect light. Its so slight, that you can't feel it in the sharpness.

 

[ghostrider]

Nope, it has nothing to do with the choil.
If you look at your Native while it's closed, you will notice that the blade is still just a fraction of an inch above the inside FRN "bolster" portion that houses the spring.
If the blade was farther from the FRN "bolster" portion of the handle, then the tip of the blade would protrude above the handle when the knife was closed.

I was referring to the kick of the blade. It forms half of the 50/50 choil. Therefore if the Kick is too short, I imagine it wouldn't look right on that particular design. I wasn't talking about the what one might refer to as the primary choil, or the handle part of the 50/50 choil. Maybe I'm just not explaining it right.