question about bevel

N

nickE10mm

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Mar 17, 2006
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113
I have a few newb questions for you experts.

Do you think its possible to make a double bevel edge FREEHAND on stones? (ie 10/15 edge) Or is this only realistic with mechanical sharpeners ?

I have a Gerber Freeman s30v on its way to me and I was wondering if you all would sharpen this with a standard V edge or with a double bevel? I'll primarily be using it as a gutter / skinner but it will also be my EDC knife.

I don't have a sharpener yet but I'm looking at the Sharpmaker because of current funds. Depending on what you all respond, I'll also be getting a sharpening system soon (sharpmaker, apex or simple stones, I'm undecided)

Let me know! Knifes are going to become a new hobby for me in addition to firearms and I'm doing some fact-finding right now.

Thanks!
 
The quick and simple answer to your question is: Absolutely!

No matter whether you are honing freehand or with a mechanical device, it is usually good practice to hone with a double bevel. However, the less acute bevel may be very small, a microbevel. It usually helps to clean up the edge and to remove any traces of burr. It also ensures that you are truly working only on the edge.

Now the fine print. How accurate your double bevel turns out freehand is a matter of your diligence, practice and patients. When I am careful, I am proud to say that I can actually hold an angle to within one degree once I have a feeling for the angle. I use angle blocks or a protractor against which I lean the blade to get a feeling for the angle that I am trying to hold. However, it is not very important to hold an angle that accurately. If you work more sloppily, the bevels will round and blend into each other, which is not necessarily a bad thing. You are creating more of a convex edge. It may be a bit less efficient (you are doing a bit more work that you would have to) but the result is not inferior in anyway (other than in looks maybe).

In order to minimize you work and maximize the performance, it is important to remember that microbevel should be very small. So you set the edge as if you are going with a single bevel, you are not worrying about the second bevel at all. Only once you are satisfied with your single bevel you increase the angle a bit and take only few and careful strokes. All you want to do is to clean up the edge and perhaps make it more robust. But as Cliff has pointed out many times you have to remember, the edge strength is very nonliniar with the bevel size (which translates to edge width behind the edge, even though that term is usually not used for the microbevel but for the edgebevel but the same principle applies) and edge angle. Even a small microbevel will increase the edge strength substantially while it will sacrifice near nothing in cutting ability.
 
Exellent.

My dad taught me the basics of sharpening many years ago. I think that most of the time, when I was done with the edge, I (unconciously) steepened the angle for the last few strokes.... It just felt like it would be better. Of course, I knew nothing about any of this at the time.

I appreciate your response.
 
Many on these forums sharpen freehand, and nearly all use double (or compound) bevels.

There really is no mystery or mystique involved in hand-honing. The motor skills are simple and obvious. Some early patience is required to discipline yourself in maintaining consistent strokes at your intended bevel angle(s) on both sides of the blade edge.

There are hand-sharpening primers on the web, and books on the subject - but the task and method are obvious and the skills will come with disciplined practice.

There's no 'magic stones' requirement either. You can hone a fine edge on inexpensive carborundum stones or even supported sandpaper.

After your first hand-honed blade, you'll be buying knives just for the gratification of edging them, and 'better' stones just to use them.

Hope this helps!
 
I look forward to doing some sharpening. I just like to have a little knowledge ahead of time :)

Here's what my new knife will look like :)

 
Sure you can do it but not as easily as if you have a sharpmaker. Usually the secondary bevel (the big one) only needs to be reground if the primary micro-bevel has been ground so many times it has developed a "shoulder". This regrinding of the secondary bevel is referred to as "profiling" or "reprofiling".

Here is a decent link that explains some of this bevel business.


http://forums.egullet.com/index.php?showtopic=26036

I like the pictures and diagrams.
 
Depending on what you're trying to accomplish with the second bevel, it can be pretty easy freehand ... I'm assuming here that if you're sharpening freehand at all, you've got the basic angle-holding skill down. If you're just doing the double-bevel to grind off the burr, all you'll do is raise the spine a tad, and then take a few strokes per side very lightly -- often, I use no more pressure than the weight of the knife itself.

If the purpose of the double-bevel is to knock off the shoulder, then that's just as easy freehand. The angle of the "backbevel" doesn't have to be perfectly accurate, so even though you'll be pressing harder, small changes in angles are a don't-care, IMO.
 
Mechanical sharpeners just make it easier to control the evenness of the bevels so they stand out distinctly and evenly which is important but not so much that it is the only way to do it. It is very possible to do this by hand. Many guys around here do a 'micro bevel' as well as the primary bevel completely by hand and some of the guys good at this end up with knife edges that look like they were done on machines. In my experience the mechanical devices like the Edge Pro are very useful for correct bevel angles, especially on recurved or other shapes besides straight edges but even though I have one I still do the micro bevel by hand most every time.

I'm sure you are not talking about a micro bevel per say but you can do what you are asking for sure. I did it in fact on my Buck/Strider 881 because those blades are so thick (4.5mm) and only 3" long. The only way I could make it slice the way I wanted was to do a primary and then a secondary bevel on it.

STR
 
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