Question about choils

Dexter Ewing

Dexter Ewing

Joined
Oct 3, 1998
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Some big fixed blades have the extended choil portion of the tang in between the rear most sharpened part of the cutting edge to the lower handle guard. I'm curious to what the functional rationale is versus the styling aspect - what are your opinions?

Personally, I believe the choils exist for pure function. some choils permit the user to choke up on the knife to provide more precise control of the blade during intricate cutting. And to a certain degree, choils can bolster the aesthetic aspect of the knife. But IMHO aesthetics follow function.

Anyone and everyone is invited to respond, though I'd really like to read responses from you knifemaker types (you guys know who ya are :) )

Thanks in advance, your input and opinions are greatly appreciated.
 
Dexter,I extend mine on some of my bigger users and put in a finger groove for choking up like you said.I don't think it does much for looks just function.Just my $.02,Dave:)
 
It depends on what type and size of knife you are talking about.

I tend to put functional choils on our larger knives. For us it is function first and if it happens to add to the "look" of the knife then so be it.
 
Dex,
I agree with Dave. Some patterns I grind to within a 1/4" of the guard and some I do the half round cut out in front of the guard for choking up on the blade. I guess "knifemaker's perogative" comes into play.
 

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I believe this to be an example of a "Functional Choil" A lot of customers ask for a functional choil for choking up on big blades, but I have to say that I have never used the choke up hold personally. When I grind a blade like this I start the grind just a wee bit in front of the choil so there isnt a sharp edge to annoy you using the choke hold. I also like the looks of the functional choils on big blades, but it certainly depends on the flow of the whole knife.
srtk.jpg
 
I use the enlarged choil for a couple reasons, in addition to the fact that I like the way it looks. It helps shape the forward part of the guard, and also separates the blade edge from the ricasso, making it easier to sharpen. In my Retribution model, shown here, I've actually used the choil to shape the guard from the blade steel, rather than using separate parts.

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Hey Dexter....

Good topic BTW....

I think there are some people that are confusing a Choil with the plundge line area or where the edge of the knife starts..

My understanding of a Choil is a finger notch directly in front of the front guard of the knife..

Correct me if I'm wrong,,but Anything without that finger notch,,does Not have a choil....

For instance the Busse Basic line..None of them have Choils..The small notch in front of the guard,,is not a choil...
I'd love a #7 with a choil.....

As far as choils go though...

I like them,,and like them alot...
Any big blade should have a choil as far as I'm concerned,,everything other than fighters that is...

I like really deep exaggerated choils that are comfortable,,such as on the Busse Combat Grade..Even these could be a little bit deeper in my opinion...

Even smaller knives can make good use of choils if done properly...

ttyle

Eric...
 
Eric, even them little notches are called choils. :) And the portion of a knife from the front of the handle, bolsters or guard if it has one to where the grind starts is called the "choil area"
 
As many of you are probably aware I like choils. Especially smooth rounded choils that provide plenty of room for your finger in front of the guard. A choil designed in this manner enhances control, lessens fatiue when slicing as it permitts a greater mechanical advantage (leverage) for the hand that is doing the work. The choil does not lessen blade length providing it flows into the cutting edge and cannot hang up when plunged into tissue. A well designed choil is solidly based on function.
 
In "combat" style blades, it lrts you get a finger in frount of the guard to pull the knife out of,hopefully, a dead enemy.
 
Interesting post! I often looked at these sub 1cm Choils and thought...Why? Obviously not for function but for style.

However a 'proper' Choil as seen here is very useful! Great stuff.

Nice knives Rob and Jerry!
 
Hey Guys....

Nice blades guys...

Don,,

See I didn't know that ewas concidered a choil..
I always thought of this as more of a Spanish Notch...


Rob..

Thanks for the clarification...

Looks as though I'm the one who is confused...

I always thought that a Choil was Only a finger choil and nothing less...

So even if the knife has No finger groove,,it still has a choil ???
What if the edge of the blade goes right to the plundge line,,no notch,,no finger groove,,is that still a choil ???

Boy now,, I'm Really confused!!:)

Now then ,,What is the Ricasso(SP?) ????

Thanks

Eric....
 
(It can get worse :D ... and about those Spanish notches :)
 
Hi Dexter,

Regarding choils and their roll, all of my combat knives incorporate an extended ricasso area ahead of the guard. Placing the hand in front of the guard was a secondary option though a viable one. The primary reason was strength, as this area, apart from the tip, was subject to the greatest stress (one engineer told me, "It was the culmination point of all the force vectors when under load". Yea, whatever.) A poorly designed ricasso to tang transition area on a narrow tang design can cause it to go snaparino pretty easily. Strength first, function second.

Regarding function, on all my combat knives, I utilize serrations on the guard faces for added grip purchase when choked up. The forward grip position is 95% work related. The only time it was suggested in a combative role was when you were facing someone with a blunt and not a sharp weapon. However, in doing so, you're limiting your effective striking distance at the same time.

On my Flesheater Escrima fighter, which incorporates 4 combative distance options with its grip, Advincula said the forward position (finger ahead of the guard) was for work only.

On collector grade pieces, go with whatever works with the overall design flow. It's simply there for eye appeal in that case.

Jim
 
A Spanish Notch is a choil with an attitude, used in conjunction with a guard for trapping an opponent's blade and torquing it out of his hand. Even that tiny little notch at the beginning of the grind is a choil, like the one on Don's knife above. I also put those on my small knives are an aid in sharpening. That little gap makes it easier to run the stone the full length of the edge without getting it onto the ricasso. The ricasso is that area of the blade between the guard and where the grind begins.
 
Originally posted by Jerry Hossom
It helps shape the forward part of the guard, and also separates the blade edge from the ricasso, making it easier to sharpen.
Click to expand...

Jerry - now that's something I never considered :o Thanks for bringing that up.

To all who responded - many thanks! Ask and ye shall receive. This is one of the things that makes this place so great - a wealth of info!

From many of the replies, seems that my observations on choils are right on with everyone else's. Thanks again and keep the replies comin'! :)
 
Hey Bubba..

Thanks i'll have a look at that link..

I'd Really like a #7 with a finger groove...:)

However I use my knives,,not only for pleasure,but for making sheaths,,and any changes I make to a knife would cause problems with future fitting....

On the other hand,,another #7 may be in order..:)

LOL

Thanks

Eric....
 
I have a dumb question; how do you pronounce "choil"? Is it spoken just as it is written: CHoil or is it a K sound, like Koil?? I have never heard the word spoken before.
 
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