Question About Dyed Handle Woods

[Graham Fredeen]

Hello folks,

Here's a quick question for those with more experience working with dyed and stabalized handle woods than I have (which is very little, as they aren't something I use a whole lot of).

A customer specified some dyed blue redwood burl blocks for some knives I am currently working on for him. My only previous experience working with dyed wood was with some dyed blue curly maple. The maple I had was dyed all the way through the block, with 100% penetration. However, as soon as I cut into these redwood burl blocks, the dye only penetrated about 25-35% of the blocks, with the plain old un-dyed redwood underneath. The stabalization is good, and goes all the way through, but the dye certainly does not. As a result, the customer doesn't like the look, so those blocks are wasted and its time to try something else.

Before I go out and order some more dyed burl, I wanted to check with you folks to firstly see if this "partial" penetration when dying of the redwood burl is a common place characteristic of that particular wood and is to be expected, or if these blocks were just not dyed properly?

Secondly, the customer has his heart set on having pure blue dyed burl handles on his knives. Are there any species of burl woods that dye really well and have consistent 100% dye penetration? Buckeye burl? Maple burl? Box Elder Burl? , etc? Or, is this just a risk thats going to be out there, and perhaps I should try to get the customer to select something else for the handles? And also, if there are good "safe" types of wood to select for dyed burls, if you folks have any recommended sources for these particular dyed blocks (the source I have has been good, except for these, but perhaps there are other better sources).

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[CUTS LIKE A KRIS]

I don't have much experience actually putting dyed wood on blades but all of the blocks I have pre-cut for existing projects have been dyed completely through. I would contact the supplier and ask about a refund. My rookie opinion.

 

[james terrio]

Redwood sure wouldn't be my first choice of something to dye, it's usually fairly dark and well, reddish to begin with so dying it blue would seem pretty difficult. I think you're trying to drink whiskey from a bottle of wine.

I've seen the ones you mentioned dyed blue and they all looked good. I suspect that's because they're light-colored to begin with. Green generally looks good in those woods, too. Other colors are problematic.

 

[Robert Mayo]

Any box elder burl i have used was dyed all the way through.

Bob

 

[Shaughnessy]

Graham,
Like Bob said the box elder burl will take dye very well. Maple burl will as well. I have seen blue purple and teal redwood burl, but havent used any so I cant comment on that. Larry

 

[Burl Source]

It has already been said a few times here.
For dyed burl Maple, Buckeye and Box Elder take dyes the best. You will still get some contrasts from portions that will resist the dye. The only way around that would be to do a surface dye after the handle is shaped and sanded.

 

[Shaughnessy]

It has already been said a few times here.
For dyed burl Maple, Buckeye and Box Elder take dyes the best. You will still get some contrasts from portions that will resist the dye. The only way around that would be to do a surface dye after the handle is shaped and sanded.

When the burl is done professionally, the dye will go ALL the way thru. I have never had to try and "re-dye" blocks on the surface. This includes single dye, double dye, etc.

I have seen super-hard birdseye maple and quilted where the dye looked streaky and did not go all the way thru on some of the blocks, but NEVER with the burls mentioned.

Box Elder is almost always dyed to bring out the burl figure, to see natural box elder burl unless its flame is unusual to me. Buckeye takes a great gold/ yellow dye and that enhances the already awesome figure.

I have some outstanding oak burl that is spalted that is being dyed gold/yellow right now, and Im hoping to get the same effect as the buckeye.

I am sure mileage may vary, but I would not hesitate to have any of the mentioned burls dyed at one of the pro shops. -Larry

 

[Burl Source]

My bad on the surface dying comment. I read back through and it didn't make sense. What I was thinking in my head but didn't explain is how the guitar guys do on solid body guitars. This is an example by Spector.

They get the wood all the way shaped and sanded and they do a surface dye with aniline dyes. This is what you see on a lot of the guitars with quilted and flamed maple. The dye will only penetrate a fraction of an inch but they are able to get even coloring this way.

When blocks and scales are dyed and then stabilized in a tank, the different woods can react differently to the dyes with portions resisting the dye. I think that can give the wood really cool random color patterns.

This photo shows some pieces of different woods dyed and stabilized by K&G. They were all dyed brown in the same batch.

 

[Graham Fredeen]

Thanks for the replys folks.

As I mentioned, the dyed redwood burl was specifically requested by the customer, not me. I have no previous experience with it. The outer layers dyed quite well and looked quite good, the dye just didn't penetrate all the way through, which is what created the problem.

If you folks think that this is the result of improper dying, or if its just because it is redwood burl, please let me know.

I will hunt down one of the other burls and offer that as the option for the customer.

Thanks,

Graham

 

[Burl Source]

If the dying was done by one of the professionals like K&G or WSSI, I would guess that it was the redwood resisting the dye. Redwood will vary a lot with how oily it is and some will be pitchy.

 

[Larry D. Davis]

My bad on the surface dying comment. I read back through and it didn't make sense. What I was thinking in my head but didn't explain is how the guitar guys do on solid body guitars. This is an example by Spector.

They get the wood all the way shaped and sanded and they do a surface dye with aniline dyes. This is what you see on a lot of the guitars with quilted and flamed maple. The dye will only penetrate a fraction of an inch but they are able to get even coloring this way.

In order to overcome the chromatographic wood fiber has on dye high end guitar builders, especially acoustic builders do not tint or dye the wood directly, but tint the finish applied to insure evenness without fiber extractive, chemical interference. The USFS did a study on chromatographic affects of dye on wood fiber and concluded you get what you get. It's not predictable results.