Question about grind variations

[ibuyblades]

I don't see a saber grind description on Busse Collector. What is the difference between saber grind and flat grind in terms of utility? Or is the only difference relative to aesthetics and personal preference?

Thanks.

 

[<Flux>]

I haven't really studied any of this, so consider the following assumptions based on logic and some experience:

If you take two knives of the exact same proportions, edge geometry/angle, and steel, one being full flat ground (FFG,) the other sabre ground, the FFG knife will be thinner behind the edge. Also, the FFG will be lighter. Both of these things can mean very little, or make a world of difference based on the length and thickness of the blade.

The FFG blade would generally be considered to have better slicing abilities than its Sabre ground counterpart because it will have more surface area to cut with. Also, the angle of the primary bevel on the FFG blade would be more acute than the Sabre ground blade, leaving less metal behind the edge.

For chopping purposes, the Sabre ground knife could offer an advantage, being that the blade would be heavier and more forward balanced. Also, the Sabre ground blade would be less likely to suffer damage to the edge when chopping, due to the fact that it will have more metal behind the edge.

My preference of blade geometry varies greatly depending on the blade size and its intended use.

Another type of geometry to look into is convex - think bullet shaped.

There are far better descriptions out there. I would recommend searching the web for descriptions of the various grinds and what their strengths and weaknesses are. I wrote this up real quick while out on a walk, so I'm sure there are plenty of details that I missed.

 

[rbmcmjr]

If you take two knives of the exact same proportions, edge geometry/angle, and steel, one being full flat ground (FFG,) the other sabre ground, the FFG knife will be thinner behind the edge. Also, the FFG will be lighter. Both of these things can mean very little, or make a world of difference based on the length and thickness of the blade.

In my experience, the saber grind shows up on the thinner stock knives, so the weight and thinness discussion above is moot. You can see this in the comparison between the Ergo series and the ZT variations thereof (except the ZTSJ), to name one example. The HOFSH and FSH show the same thing. The primary grind angles are the same, but they "run out" of meat near the top due to the thinner stock.

 

[uyotg]

In my experience, the saber grind shows up on the thinner stock knives, so the weight and thinness discussion above is moot. You can see this in the comparison between the Ergo series and the ZT variations thereof (except the ZTSJ), to name one example. The HOFSH and FSH show the same thing. The primary grind angles are the same, but they "run out" of meat near the top due to the thinner stock.

Pretty much all of what Flux says is moot unless you start off both knives with the same specifications. Otherwise, there's nothing that one grind guarantees over the other. There's not really much you can say that holds true for every case of saber vs. full flat grinds. The only thing I can think of is that a saber ground blade doesn't have all of the surface area of its flats in contact if you're slicing some firm object, while a full flat grind probably does, but without measurements of the two knives, you can't say which one will perform better.

 

[PeterPHWS]

I don't think what Flux said is moot on the weight issue. Some knives in the Busse range are also not just sabre ground on the thinner stock. The FFBM and the Dogfather are both sabre ground and for many are a little too "heavy" in terms of balance and "feel". The FBM LE and the DFLE which are both flat ground have by reputation a much more "lively" and better balanced feel to them. I owned all four of these and have kept the DFLE and an FBM LE ( blank ) sterile military over run blade I picked up at Knob Creek.

In comparison the SFNO was originally flat ground but they did a run of sabre grind knives which culminated in the SFNO LE ( 1-300 ) versions. Those blades at 7 inches benefitted from the sabre grinds in that they made the knife just that little bit more blade heavy on balance and feel and improved the chopping performance of the blade considerably. Made the knife much more of a "one knife do it all" popular choice.

So as a simple rule of thumb from "feedback" by guys on here ... the mid range knives in the 6-8 inch range often benefit from a sabre grind just to off set the weight in the handle to give a forward weighted "feel" to the knife ... this improves chopping power. Good examples are the SFNO LE and Sabre ASH and the Chopweiler and Ratweiler from the Swamp knives. However on the longer 10 inch blades many prefer the balance and feel of a flat grind because they are quicker in the hand and still chop well.

There is no universal truth though in what I have said and there are exceptions. The BWM LE which has a high Sabre grind is probably one of the best balanced and handling knives of any 10 inch blade I have in the Busse range. It feels very similar to the old SHBM which by reputation are very highly thought of on "balance and feel".

If you read on here people praising a certain knife because of the "grind" ... such as a Sabre ASH or SFNO ... it is probably down to that specific model which has an improved "feel" or "performance" to it because of the grind shape affecting the balance.

Strength wise ... all Busse's in the mid to large range are able to handle way beyond what most knives will ever encounter. You don't need the sabre grind from a strength perspective.

 

[<Flux>]

I agree with everyone who posted after me.

My post was written with the SFNO and SFNO LE in mind, and to a lesser extent, the DF and DF LE. I would definitely agree that blades in the mid-size category can benefit from a Sabre grind. Peter pretty much covered these blades well and the reasons why the Sabre grind is beneficial on the mid-sized blades. When it comes to the big blades, the sabre grid may make the blade too forward heavy on certain blades, but I think it is beneficial on the DF, at least in certain situations. I can see where the sabre grind would cause a blade to be too forward balanced, like with the FFBM.

When you are comparing two knives that are not the same stock, a lot of what I said is moot and grind choice is often an aesthetic preference.