Question about Hidden Tang Knives

Sean O'Hare

Sean O'Hare

Joined
Jul 24, 2003
Messages
1,183
All of my knives in the past have been a full tang knife. I've been interested in trying a hidden tang knife and am wondering what method people generally use? Do people generally do mortised tang handles, or do you generally drill a hole for the tang and put it all together?

The guy who taught me how to make knives always used to drill an air hole in the handle so the epoxy would better fill the hole but this is something I never liked as it leaves an obvious imperfection in the handle. Actualy I guess I could drill the hole right through and then put a pin in the air hole to seal it off once I'm done. Don't know why I didn't think of that until just now. :confused:

I was thinking of using a heat gun to heat the epoxy a little in order to make it flow better and fill the hole before putting the knife together. What do you guys generally do?

As for attaching guards, I'm going to try Primos' solderless guard tutorial, it looks like a good method for doing this.

Anyhow would like to hear how everyone else does this.

Thanks,
Sean
 
Since you mentioned heating the epoxy it reminded me that I wanted to post this. I have been useing two epoxies from System Three in my hidden tang knives, their T88 structural and Clear Coat. I use the T88 to hold the pieces together (it is fairly thick) and then use the Clear Coat to fill the inner void (it is very thin). I have talked with the company and they have told me that there is no problem with the two different epoxies curring in contact with eachother. The other important piece of info they gave me is that the cure time for epoxy halves with every 18 degrees F increase in temp with no upper limit on the cure temp. I am assuming that the cure tim es supplied are for about 75 degrees. They have a good website that explains alot about epoxy in general. www.systemthree.com is the web address.

WS
 
With a mortised handle, you can have a wider tang and still not worry about having to have a handle that is 1" thick.

The stick tang is OK, but is harder to do. The air escape hole should be done with a 1/16" drill bit, and will leave a spot that is barely noticeable.

Don't forget to grind some notches in the corners of the tang for the epoxy to grab better.

Wait until the epoxy starts to flow out of the hole, then wipe it off quickly, and put some tape over it. When you later finish the handle, you will see what I mean.

You can nuke the epoxy in the microwave for 10-20 seconds or so, I wouldn't go longer, and that will thin it some.
Pour the handle hole about 1/2-3/4 full, and then insert the tang. It will overflow so be prepared with paper towels underneath. Make sure that your blade is covered with masking tape.

Wrap rubber bands around the guard, and the handle to hold them tight together, and let them set for at least 12 hours.

The above is for a hidden stick tang, and if done right, will not ever come loose. :eek: :D
 
I do mostly nothing but stick tang knives, But I take my tangs completely though the handle and then thread the tang and screw on the butt cap, unless a customer orders a knife with no butt cap. Then I drill out the cavity, drill a few holes in the tang for an epoxy flow through and also add a few notches with a file. I then fill the handle with epoxy and slide the tang in very slowly giving the epoxy time to fill around the tang. It gets a bit messy but on a few knives that I have changed handles on there was never any voids or air pockets in the cavity when I've removed the old handle. Just remember not to stop and scratch your head in the middle of the assembly. :D

good luck

Bill
 
I used to drill the hole in the handle and fit the stick as mentioned above. I spent some time wit Dan Farr who showed me how to do the mortised tang method and I don't want to go back. I think Terry has a nice tutorial on his site. check it out.
I don't have a milling machine to mortice the handles. I use a dremel moto tool that fits into a dremel frame that makes it kind of like a drill press. Works great and is pretty cheap.
My problem with drilling the stick tang hole was getting that hole lined up perfectly. I ended up with a couple that had the blade going off at a slight angle. There is a trick to get it lined up perfect that Bil Moran showed me. He has a little lathe turned point that fits in the table of his drill press and sticks up. He lines this up directly under the drill bit and marks the handle with the entrance and exit hole (or imaginary exit hole if it doesn't go all the way thru). He puts the point on the "exit hole mark" and the bit on the other end. Then drills it out. This keeps it all lined up nice. Just holds it with his hand and avoids all that clamping and lining up that inevitably goes awry.....
Haven't tried it yet myself, but it seems an elegant solution.
Ed
 
Thanks for the responses guys. Ya I saw Terry's mortised tang tutorial and it looks good. Will definitely have to try it some time. The stick tang method appeals to me more at this point as I would like to have a continuous grain pattern in the handle rather than a line where it was cut in half.

Definitely cutting notches in the tang is a good idea as is the holes through it. I put holes in my full tang knives and drill into the scales at each hole for added epoxy bonding. Will defintely do both of these little tricks.

Thanks again,
Sean
 
I use(here we go again,guys) Acra Glas jel. It reminds you of butter at room temp when you have it mixed. Smooth and non runny, it is pretty easy to use without air bubbles if you go slow with filling the handle tang cavity. Brownells sells a liquid 'glas which is popular with some folks, too. Actually, the liquid may be easier to use for a hidden tang. I hear it tends to be runny. I also completely "butter" the tang and all parts surfaces to be glued, such as the back of the guard or bolsters where the handle material butts up to. The 'glas cleans up good while still soft, using alcohol.
 
Wow that stuff sounds interesting, I'll have to look for it the next time I am in civilization.

All that talk about "buttering" and I'm gettin hungry!!!

Thanks John I will definitely take a look for that stuff.

Sean
 
Has anyone tried welding something like a grade 5 bolt to the tang? Saves on blade steel if your not forging the tang down. I haven't done it but I want to try it, and kind of thought I had read something about it before here.
 
Mike, I generally do hidden tang blades, and have done a bunch of 'em. I lay out the tang with a pencil on the side and end of the handle blank (wood), Carefully set the blank up in the drill press and drill a couple of holes with a drill bit aproximating the mean thickness of the tang, one hole corresponding to each edge of the tang. I use various ho' made long, thin chisels to remove the web between the holes, aided by an electric hand drill and a smaller diameter twist drill to hog out waste. Then heat sink the blade in copper plate and burn in, I never harden my tangs but leave them tough normalized, so I have no problem with heating the tang on a finished blade. Heat to a dull, barely perceptable red heat and slide the handle blank down on the tang. Use a light mallet to tap it down if need be. If all goes well you can get a darn good no-slop fit. I use JB Weld to assemble. Poke it in the hole on a sliver of wood and keep working it down till you feel a sucking plenitude of epoxy. Coat the tang and all mating surfaces before assembly, dont hurry things, let the air escape gradually. If you have done it right there will be a lot of excess epoxy come back out, which is you assurance that all is well filled. Just keep wiping off with scrap newspaper. sometimes I will set up a blade in the vice and use a bungee cord to apply pressure, but this is not really necessary. Just keep reapplying pressure and wiping ooze-out until an equilibrium is reached. It takes a good bit of practice to do all this neatly and quickly. When all goes well I can get a handle fitted in less than an hour. Of course there will be intervening shaping and sanding, etc, before we are ready for final assembly. I always drill and cross pin.
 
Hey Fox Creek that's a damn good idea you have there. I like the idea of drilling out the hole without drilling a diameter that is larger than the thickness of the tang. I could see what you are describing as working very well. I will definitely have to try this out.

Thanks again,
Sean
 
Matt Shade wrote - Has anyone tried welding something like a grade 5 bolt to the tang? Saves on blade steel if your not forging the tang down. I haven't done it but I want to try it, and kind of thought I had read something about it before here.

I have done several swords using that method. Even with the abuse of actors :( none has come apart (yet). I silver braze a bolt, that I have cut a slot in, to the end of the tang. I also put in a couple of pins, but I tend to be a belt and suspenders kind of guy.
Lynn
 
I just do a few hidden tangs these days, but I drill a hole (or holes) in the tang and carefully measure the handle and put a pin or pins through the tang and handle. Along with grooving and notching the tang, this makes a pretty rock solid handle without having to drill all the way through and use a tang nut.
 
HI LYNN! 'hope you are fine and dandy. 'come to supper for soup beans and cornbread next time you are visitng in Lexington. :D I have made knives with a threaded tang brass-brazed on, with a threaded pommel/pommel nut. This is a very good system. Wayne Goddard covers it well in his published materials. For us knifemakers, brazing or silver (hard) soldering is better than welding. The mild steel all-thread is plenty good, You dont need a heat treatable cap screw grade thread stock.
 
Lynn said:
Matt Shade wrote - Has anyone tried welding something like a grade 5 bolt to the tang? Saves on blade steel if your not forging the tang down. I haven't done it but I want to try it, and kind of thought I had read something about it before here.

I have done several swords using that method. Even with the abuse of actors :( none has come apart (yet). I silver braze a bolt, that I have cut a slot in, to the end of the tang. I also put in a couple of pins, but I tend to be a belt and suspenders kind of guy.
Lynn
Click to expand...

Thanks, I missed this somehow yesterday. I'll have to try it now :)
 
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